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That's the line Hillary Clinton has been using for the last few days to describe her attitude regarding the calls for her to quit the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.
And the lady in the pantsuit was saying Tuesday night that she would not be quitting the race for a bit longer.
No matter how tough the odds against the New York senator delivering an acceptance speech at this summer's Democratic National Convention in Denver -- and the odds are long, indeed: she trails in pledged delegates, she trails in super delegates, her campaign is deep in debt -- Clinton can't quit while she is winning.
And Clinton was winning Tuesday night.
Big.
It wasn't just that she was beating Barack Obama in West Virginia by a statewide margin of more than 2-1. She was carrying the bluest of the blue-collar counties -- in the Mountain State's coal-mining regions -- by margins of 10-1. She was winning among every measurable demographic group. Clinton even won among West Virginians who said she and her campaign had attacked Obama "unfairly" -- unreasonably negative she may have been, but they favored her 54-37.
West Virginia gave Clinton the sort of win the one-time front runner was supposed to be securing everywhere this year.
Sure, the West Virginia Democratic electorate might have been whiter, older, poorer and more rural than America.
But the win gave Clinton a message for the undecided super delegates who she will be meeting with Wednesday to try and win enough support to slow the dramatic momentum that has been Obama's since the Illinois senator swept North Carolina and almost won Indiana last week.
"In light of our overwhelming victory here in West Virginia," Clinton said, "I want to send a message to all those who are making up their minds... I am in this race because I believe I am the strongest candidate."
Still, as good as West Virginia had been to her, Clinton was pulling her punches.
She opened her victory speech with a promise to fight for the nominee of the Democratic party that sounded downright conciliatory -- especially the "I deeply admire Senator Obama" part.
And her "fight-to-the-finish" pledge seemed to have a "not-to-the-bitter-end" asterisk attached.
"I am more determined than ever to carry on this campaign, until everyone has had a chance to make their voices heard," she said.
That day will be June 3, when primaries in Montana and South Dakota complete the Democratic process.
By then, in all likelihood, it will be over for the lady in the pantsuit.
But Clinton will always be able to say that West Virginia wanted her -- even if most of the country did not.
- Atrios
- Arts and Letters Daily
- The Caucus
- Campus Progress
- Crooks and Liars
- The Daily Gotham
- Daily Kos
- FAIR
- Feministe
- Feministing
- Firedoglake
- Glenn Greenwald
- Gothamist
- In these Times
- Hendrick Hertzberg
- Huffington Post
- Matthew Yglesias
- Media Matters
- Mother Jones
- My DD
- New York Review of Books
- Openleft
- Pam's House Blend
- Political Wire
- The Progressive
- RaceWire
- Real Clear Politics
- Roberto Lovato
- Romenesko
- Talking Points Memo
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Tapped
- Tech President
- Tompaine
- The Washington Note
- Wonkette
RE: It's Not Over ... Well, how do you fight, with this monster 400plus-pound gorrila called the free press on your back? You don't. Instead, it's really free for Mr. Obama
-----------
McAuliffe says media ‘in the tank' for Obama By Klaus Marre Posted: 05/13/08 11:43 AM [ET] Terry McAuliffe, campaign chairman for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), said Tuesday that the former first lady is hamstrung by a biased media.
"Clearly it has been a biased media, no question about it," McAuliffe said on Fox News. When asked how much of the mainstream media is "in the tank" for Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.), who leads Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination, McAuliffe estimated that about 90 percent of the media favor Obama.
Posted by HelenDAO at 05/13/2008 @ 10:57pm
see, only clinton can carry the BIG states.
<i>I hear her voice, in the mornin' hour she calls me.
The radio reminds me of my home far away.
And drivin' down the road I get a feelin'
That I should have been home yesterday, yesterday.</i>
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008 @ 11:08pm
Spare us Helen. Please.
That "biased" press is the same outfit that all but crowned her the nominee when all of this began several months ago. The same outfit that refused to declare her candidacy dead after a dozen Obama victories in a row - when any other candidate would have ben written off. The same outfit that made a central issue soundbites from Obama's pastor against him (which Clinton had no problem fanning).
Could it just be that Clinton is receiving negative coverage because, quite simply . . . .
she deserves it?
Posted by Hman23 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:08pm
HAPPY -
Laugh it up. I see McCain has managed 76%. That's quite a sign of solidarity. Wonder how he will do when he actually has to run against someone?
Posted by Hman23 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:15pm
What an idiotic headline?
Posted by kevin99999 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:18pm
The "Blind Ambition Tour" continues.
Next:
A bullet bra and a pony tail.
Kinda' "like a prayer".
~Somehow, I think it's not gonna work.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:26pm
Frosty... you beat me to it. I had it cut and was pasting it when I read your post... the very same verse.
Country roads, take me home To the place, I be-long West virginia, mountain momma Take me home, country roads
Posted by ttr at 05/13/2008 @ 11:26pm
That's no lady....
Posted by BAYED at 05/13/2008 @ 11:27pm
Perhaps a deep French kiss with Brittney might boost her ratings?
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:31pm
A good win for Clinton. She picked up about 9 delegates. Now all she has to do is win the remaining five primaries by 95%-5%, and she will overtake Obama.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:39pm
Alright, this one is absolutely PRICELESS.
I had this premonition some time ago, and here is the imagery that came to mind:
tinyurl.com/5fg9sv
This is a must see, folks.
Somebody, please put 'er in the oven and dial to broil.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/13/2008 @ 11:57pm
i'll resist the temptation to make the usual crass incest joke...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/13/2008
Awww, I was hopin' for a good one before I went to bed.
Posted by ACook at 05/13/2008 @ 11:58pm
The posting time warp is in full force tonight.
Perhaps we can return to pre-Dubya days?
12:02 am
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/14/2008 @ 12:02am
"It's not over for the Zuni doll with the knife"
I repost the sweet vid here:
tinyurl.com/5fg9sv
For anyone who happened to see the Karen Black horror film from '75, "Trilogy of Terror", this will particularly resonate.
Hillary as a savage Zuni attack doll also turns the racist iconography of this campaign on it's head.
~5/14/08 @ 12:11 am
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/14/2008 @ 12:13am
It appears that the little people of the hill state are not able to step into the 21st century and embrace the paradigm shift of change that we need in Washington. I think these people are on a different planet than the majority of the nation.
The reason I say "the hill state" is because compared to the region of the United States where I am a native, the Rocky Mountain states, their so-called "mountains" are really hills. Our mighty and rugged mountains and our people tower in comparison. The People of the Rocky Mountain states and the Pacific Northwest are overwhelmingly Barack Obama supporters. Why? Because many of our people come from pioneer stock and traditionally we love change not more of the same. Our Pioneer ancestors dared to face the future and the fears of the unknown as we left places like West Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc. and turned our sites to the vast wilderness and towering mountains of the west. We, like our forefathers and foremothers, look to a new day. We look to a day of great hope and the solutions that Barack Obama brings to that future. We embrace him and we love him. We love the fact that he is different and that he will bring a different kind of politics to Washington. What a breath of fresh air.
We tend to shun racism and the rhetoric (i.e.Muslim, rev. Wright) that media has brought to this campaign season. We take a man at his word and don't judge him by the imperfections of others like it appears West Virginia certainly has done. Barack Obama has proven time and time again that he is a man of tremendous integrity, sound judgement and immense strength coupled with great calmness just like our mountains. He past the test of life and is ready to be the President of the United States. It's about time we had a man of integrity who is not blind in his ambitions to lead us. He is the man for our nation.
Hillary Clinton on the other hand pales in comparison as she sold her soul to the Washington lobbyists and NAFTA and CAFTA elite a long time ago. She has proven that she cannot be trusted. Her personal track record (not those around her as you tend to judge Barack by) has proven to be shady at best. We don't need a deceiving liar in the White House. We also do not need a senator who gave her approval to invade another country and thus has blood on her own greedy hands to lead our nation. She did it once (giving approval to George W.) and has proven that she is not to be trusted at the helm of our government.
Hope you come along and get on the train of the 21st Century during the National Election when Barack runs against McCain, West Virginia. If you don't then you will certainly be voting for at least 4 more years of hell in Iraq and more of our troops dying and more corporate greed. If you choose McCain over Obama that is exactly what you will be voting for so wake up and face reality.
Posted by WYOCowboy at 05/14/2008 @ 03:08am
The worst thing about Hillary is her exploiting race: her attempt to portray Obama as an effete, black, left-wing intellectual with no ties to white (note she does not count black) working class people, who cannot get their votes. She is doing McCain's work for him, but better. She is utterly dispicable, and why the leaders of the Democratic party continue to let her go on is beyond my understanding.
Posted by mikhailovich at 05/14/2008 @ 08:00am
Why can't Obama get votes from white racist Democrats?
Posted by woodyee at 05/14/2008 @ 08:36am
And where the heck is FRANKGRITS?!?!?!?
Seems a HUGE win for Her Majesty would have drawn him out to gloat...but no?!?!?
Yep, I think we've seen the last of him. Here's a perfect opportunity to do his "See, see? The Supers are going to see how she can win the swing states and win them big while the mulatto can't"....but he's a no show.
Again, sad to say, but I reckon no more GRITS, just oatmeal from HELEN and EULER.
Posted by Mask at 05/14/2008 @ 08:49am
The bluest of the blue collar workers.
You know Happy, that's really rich. Tell me something, have you ever spent a significant amount of time in West VA?
I'm guessing your answer is probably not long enough to not see this place as some sort of Hallmark channel movie about the values of hard work and family togetherness.
West VA is full of racist white people who have done nothing but abuse methamphetamines since their various industries left town. One of the most run down and decrepit places I've ever been, and I've been to Detroit more than once.
So that leads me to two conclusions, the first being that you're a racist moron who likes to smoke meth and probably beats his wife, or you've never actually been there before. So which is it?
Also: That is not to say only West Virginia is full of racist whack jobs who don't understand any concept that exists outside of their backyard. Just about every state in the union is like that.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 08:56am
What can be said about a state that has elected Robert Byrd a million times?
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 09:01am
I love reading the rants from people who think Obama lost WV because everyone there is racist. Yes, sure some people probably voted based upon race, but only a small percentage. Those people wouldn't have accounted for the 2-1 drubbing he got.
Obama lost because he is seen as as liberal elitist much like Gore and Kerry, who both lost WV in the general election. Of course it didn't help that Obama didn't stop there to say hello.
Only a fool would say that West Virginia doesn't matter because it only has 5 electoral votes. Obama losing here, along with other key swing sates such as Pennsylvania and Ohio shows that he has a lot of work to do in order to win the general election.
Posted by Zeddmen at 05/14/2008 @ 09:46am
Right.
So YOUR rant doesn't provide anything like proof or facts regarding the race vote in West VA.
So how is your conjecture better than mine or anybody else's?
Do me a favor. Go visit the state and tell me that the entire fucking place isn't full of racist assholes after you've spent a week there.
Even better, try working there.
West virginia doesn't matter, which would explain why he didn't campaign there. He has already won the nomination, he can call the rest of the primaries in and still win against The Beast With Two Backs.
I hate having to defend Barack Obama, but Hillary is so much obviously worse it's infuriating.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 09:57am
I'm a New York Jew, now about 60. When I was 26, I traveled out west with my then wife, who was born and raised in Henderson, Nevada, a Methodist. We loved each other, but were from different worlds and she wanted to show me hers. We visited some of her relatives at the time, one being her uncle and his family, a miner who lived in the San Juan Mountains at Silverton, Colorado and worked the mines there. They were very nice people, friendly toward me, but I knew they looked at me as some sort of alien presence, as I did them. They had never seen a Jew, except as they conjured one in the Bible, which, outside of the mines, circumscribed their waking world. They had the demeanor, appearance and manner of the polygamous women whose children were recently removed by Texas authorities. They seemed transplanted from another century. They were completely isolated from the modern world I took for granted in New York, and their ramshackle house in the middle of "nowhere" affirmed that isolation. I felt as if I'd been in a space ship and landed on another planet. We stayed for 3 days...that was enough, even for my wife, who felt closer to that way of life than I ever could, but still felt out of place in Silverton.
Fast forward 35 years. I'd bet my pension that the majority of the people who voted for HRC this week in WV are not far removed, even after three and a half decades, from the mindset, customs and culture of the family I visited in Silverton. If they went for her 100 to 1, what significance would that have? That she is wildly popular with a segment of the population that are living anachronisms, who would be thrilled to have Andrew Jackson as president again? Who are xenophobes in the extreme, during an age when xenophobia has been the currency of the Bush administration in its sadly effective propaganda campaign to sell us the war in Iraq and the still lingering "threat" of Iran?
In my view, most of these people will vote for McCain if Obama is the Democratic nominee, but he may be able to win some of them over, and in the end, they're not critical to his success. Imagine a world in which they could decide the outcome of a presidential election. Besides, when such a world existed in 1960, JFK's old man arranged, through some delicate assocations with some shadowy organized crime figures with ties to the WV miner's union, to tip the election in JFK's favor...all it took was some well-placed "contributions". That hasn't changed in 35 years, either. Obama is no saint, nor would I want him to be one. Some principles of politics remain bedrock, like buying votes. This is America, after all.
Posted by stonecutter at 05/14/2008 @ 10:05am
OK, just so we are clear ZEDD.
If Obama is a "liberal elitist" what does that make Hillary Clinton, the "Salt of the Earth?"
Compare the resumes.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 10:16am
Hillary Clinton is campaigning for 2012.
There is no other reason for her to remain in the race.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 10:40am
Hillary Clinton is campaigning for 2012.
There is no other reason for her to remain in the race.----Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
Ahh, but what's the sub-text of THAT?
Yep....that she's got to hope that Obama loses (No way she'd defeat an incumbent President for the nomination).
Now...the question becomes...does she merely HOPE....or try to see that that result occurs???
Posted by Mask at 05/14/2008 @ 11:00am
So -- she can't quit when she's losing because she wants to go out on a high note, and she can't quit when she's winning because, well, she's winning.
This is sounding like Iraq according to Petreus/Bush/McCain: when it goes well it shows we need to stay there, and when it goes badly it shows we need to stay there.
Sometimes there's no pretty graceful way to say, "Enough already!" And someday both of these campaigns will end.
Posted by bcazden at 05/14/2008 @ 11:01am
Posted by Mask at 05/14/2008
I think it is quite obvious she is doing the latter. She just has to try to do it in a way that leaves few fingerprints.
This nonsense about staying in it until the end, allowing everyone to have their say, etc. seems to be working.
Amazing, John Edwards does not win the first four primaries, and everyone expected, if not demanded, him to exit.
Hillary has five left, would have to get nearly 100% of the vote to overtake the pledged delegates, and it is perfectly acceptable to her supporters that she drag it out.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 11:10am
Anyone here know how to stay on the thread after a post?
I keep getting bounced to the homepage.
Annoying.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 11:21am
All Clinton did was bring out the "Racist" in the voters. That's all she did! America was built on racism. The simple fact is, racism is still the SICKEST most POWERFUL force in America today.
More Clinton power-plays. They never stop angling! Now she wants to force Obama to select her as his VP! It's so sick.
Obama needs to pick someone he's comfortable with and not someone who attempts to extort him into a partnership he doesn't really want.
If Obama picks someone else as his VP, Mrs. Clinton and her loyal fans have these words to thank for the decision:
Hillary: "Both John McCain and I have passed the Chief Executive threshold and Barack Obama's got a speech."
COSMICALLY DUMB! COSMICALLY DUMB!
Wake up, Mrs. Clinton. Obama has much more than "a speech"! He's got a GREAT SPEECH and, more importantly, the Democratic nomination!
Mr. Obama, please select a VP that you are comfortable with and don't let the Clinton power-plays influence you one single bit!
I think 28 years of Clintons & Bushes in the White House is quite enough, thank you very much.
Posted by CrushInfamy at 05/14/2008 @ 11:22am
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
It may be as simple as money.
She and the campaign are $20 Million in debt (possibly more, that's just what they're owning up to).
And she may be using these last few weeks to raise money to pay that off...so she and Bill don't have to.
Posted by Mask at 05/14/2008 @ 11:37am
I fear Obama nor Hillary will be able to win the general election solo. I don't trust an electorate who voted for Bush twice!
Democratic party must take charge and show a rock solid alliance. Bickering behind doors and polls and delegate counts are getting tiresome and self defeating.
Instead of tearing each other to pieces and attending to their own egos these two candidates should unite for the sake of the country. Basta.
Posted by Upsilon at 05/14/2008 @ 12:00pm
She's running for veep.
Posted by swanny58 at 05/14/2008 @ 12:17pm
Posted by swanny58 at 05/14/2008
He won't give it to her. Too much bad blood now (right after Texas and Ohio, maybe, but not now).
Plus it's TOO much "historicity"...African-American AND a woman firsts.
Plus, she brings nothing to him. He needs the "experienced white guy with foreign policy expertise"...or even a general like Clark.
Posted by Mask at 05/14/2008 @ 12:38pm
5 electoral college votes is a critical swing state? What MSM pageant and sophistry. Like Anderson Cooper said last night.....MSM talks about Clinton on the ticket...the Obama camp does not. Such creative intrigue that misleads voters but sure is good for ratings.
How about the paper hero McCain's call to Clinton to congratulate her on her huge victory last night? This says it all doesn't it. WV is Bush country that views Clinton as Bush lite. Obama should not waste his time in the general trying to swing Republican country with so little to gain. Let Hillary wallow in it. Maybe she will do a Joe Leiberman and run in WV someday when NY gives her the heaveho.
Can't wait to see what MSM will create for Kentucky....GAMECHANGER I am sure.
Time to bring out the Blackflag to get rid of the roaches who just will not die despite their heads being cut off. Tenacious little buggers....some say they will inherit the earth if we are not careful.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 12:39pm
If the situation was reversed:
Clinton - 1884 delegates, 16,438,697 votes
Obama - 1718 delegates, 15,734,865 votes
...would the Clintons be doing anything else other than demanding that Obama get out of the race due to the inevitability of Hilary's nomination?
Please, the hypocrisy is unbelievable.
Posted by Turk33 at 05/14/2008 @ 12:46pm
Look at the demographics. The same people that voted for her will not during the general election, unless she renounces her pro choice stance and promises to nominate clones of Roberts and Alito. The Popes code words during his visit, "life begins at conception". These same voters are McCain people I assure you. My church nearly excommunicated Sen. Kerrry during the last election. We also have a series of Catholic television munkies that are catholics and they will do everything they can to defeat any pro choice candidate, they will just leave enough room for "plausible deniability".
Posted by julien38 at 05/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
I tend to agree with those pundits who say that Clinton truly believes she has a shot at taking the nomination away from Obama whether by closing the gap in the popular vote, especially in key demographics, or through some H Bomb hitting the Obama campaign.
I also think she has deluded herself into thinking that McCain will defeat Obama if he does get the nomination.
This combination of factors may end up costing her plenty, both financially and politically, if Obama ends up owing her nothing.
Also, Obama would be absolutely nuts to offer her the VP slot on the ticket. He would have to deal with her, Bill and their entire retinue or retainers, from McAuliffe to Wolfson to Lewis to Ickes. Even if Obama tried to freeze her out and treat her like an old fashioned Vice President, she would have remarkable access to the media and the ability to plant hit jobs and leaks like nobody's business.
Posted by cka2nd at 05/14/2008 @ 1:03pm
First off, I am a WV democrat. I voted for Sen. Obama. I am white, over 30, and do not have a college degree.
Second. this is NOT bush country. WV was the only state in 84 besides Minnesota to vote for Fritz Mondale. if VP Gore would have won WV, the old ladies voting for Nazi Buchannon wouldn't have mattered.
If Sen. Obama would have fought for WV I believe he would have faired much better.
Sen Clinton came here, talked to us, listened to us. President Clinton was always well liked here, and he has been visiting the state regularly in the past month or so.
those things matter in a state where you DON'T have universal broadband, the population tends to be older and less media savy.
The dems can easily win WV in the fall if they'll fight for her.
Too bad it's Sen. McCain that they have to run against. WV has the HIGHEST rate of veterans in the nation. As a Veteran and War hero, Sen. McCain has a built in measure of warm regard in our State.
There are pockets of deep Racism in WV as in all states. But I bet you would find FAR fewer than you would expect.
If you want to win WV run on a MAIN STREET economic platform.
Posted by SoundGuyChris at 05/14/2008 @ 1:14pm
To WYOCowboy:
"It appears that the little people of the hill state are not able to step into the 21st century and embrace the paradigm shift of change that we need in Washington."
I think and feel the same way about this. Thank you for your thoughts since I share the same philosophical perspective. I come from the east coast with a French and Indian background. Other than my Indian heritage which dates back very far ago, my French history in the New World dates back in the 16 hundreds'.
I have seen, felt, witnessed racism. I have heard horror tales as you might imagine. Ever since I was a child, I would dream that some day, that some year our county would allow a woman or an African, in simple terms, any human being to be our president. I was raised in a multilingual family and have had different views of the world. I think it is time for us as a nation to accept a new heritage and a new international image in our leaders.
Posted by royeau at 05/14/2008 @ 1:22pm
Ah yes, the white trash vote. Just who we need deciding for us again who is best to have a beer with. Haven't we had enough of allowing the least informed (with the most to lose) among us call the shots?
Funny how she claims to want the vote of everyone to be counted, unless, of course, there would be a way to overturn the vote to her advantage.
Posted by Lil at 05/14/2008 @ 1:29pm
Posted by Turk33 at 05/14/2008
Hell some Clinton supporters are calling for Obama to drop out of the race and he's winning. You think they wouldn't be sounding that trumpet if he was losing.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/14/2008 @ 2:07pm
I desent negativity. True Hillary and Bill may have made some snide remarks about Obama; but I beleive that (especially if you support Obama for his positive stance), that by engaging in the same negative and derisive rhetoric, you become just like them. As is said in the bible "Take out the log from your eye before you concern yourself with the speck in mine". I think this country needs a lot more positivity. Leave the negativeness to the losers. On another note, why despise people from West Virginia. True they may be poor and rural; as some reference "White Trash". And true they may be bitter -- Would you not also be bitter if your means of livelihood vanished? But at the end of the day, they are not only humans like you and me, they are also citizens of this country..so why spit on them? As for racists, I (as a black man) would much prefer a blatantly racist white person (such as Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly) to tell me to my face that they hate black people (don't call me ni&&^ .. those are fighting words) rather than have some white or asian or hispanic person smile in my face and behind my back deride me for my race. Besides, when you really look at a lot of racists, they truly are pathetic, insecure, miserable people who refuse to acknowledge their weaknesses but would rather conjure up imagery of inferiority in others to make themselves feel better. Besides, of those calling yourselves 'non-racist', how many of you are truly 'non-racist'? How many white people truly try to understand (not sympathize but understand) other cultures? How many white, asian or hispanic mothers or fathers would proudly see their duaghter married to a black man? How many of you (white, asian, hispanic, etc) truly view others as equal. I date women from other races in an attempt to better understand the other cultures...every culture has valuable contributions...we should learn from each other. Anyway, take the high road, do not lower yourselves to the standards of those you do not admire.
Posted by mahagwa at 05/14/2008 @ 2:40pm
What about the Nebraska primary on the same day as W. Virginia? Obama wins Nebraska and the media do not mention it! (http://www.2008electionprocon.org/primarycaucusresults.htm)
Posted by leequinn at 05/14/2008 @ 2:40pm
"Ah yes, the white trash vote. Just who we need deciding for us again who is best to have a beer with. Haven't we had enough of allowing the least informed (with the most to lose) among us call the shots?"
Posted by Lil at 05/14/2008
Lil, your elitist slip is showing again.
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008 @ 2:55pm
Because mahagwa, Clinton exploited racism and ignorance because she knew she could always resort to appeal to the lizard brain. Why should we not call her on it? Actually spent some time with a friend in WV. I thought it was overwhelmingly beautiful and the local folks were kind and generous, putting out little dishes of the food they grew themselves and they were very proud of their well-stocked pantries, full of their own canned garden vegetables. We could learn from them, but Clinton stoked the differences that keep us all divided--that is the point, we despise them because they despise us. We think they are suckered, they resent us for....but who fascilitated it to benefit their own agenda at the expense of all of us?
Posted by Lil at 05/14/2008 @ 2:59pm
Second. this is NOT bush country. WV was the only state in 84 besides Minnesota to vote for Fritz Mondale. if VP Gore would have won WV, the old ladies voting for Nazi Buchannon wouldn't have mattered.
Posted by SoundGuyChris at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
Ahhhh...those days of yesteryear. I have heard that Hillary Clinton may have once been a Democrat as well....many, many moons ago.
Lets color WV Red. Current past performance is the better indicator of current future performance.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 3:35pm
Posted by leequinn at 05/14/2008
The primary in Nebraska was non-binding and no delegates were at stake. Obama won that caucus (and the accompanying delegates) in Feb.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 3:41pm
Ah yes, the white trash vote. Just who we need deciding for us again who is best to have a beer with. Haven't we had enough of allowing the least informed (with the most to lose) among us call the shots?
Posted by Lil at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
Wonder how many of the white trailer trash crowd the Clinton's have had over for dinner laterly? You are the company you keep. These poor folk just don't know it.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 3:42pm
The primary in Nebraska was non-binding and no delegates were at stake. Obama won that caucus (and the accompanying delegates) in Feb.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
But didn't Hillary tell us a win is win? And why all the hoopla about WV when Obama's wins in bigger states with more delegates just received passing mention?
MSM is Hillary Country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 3:51pm
Anyone here know how to stay on the thread after a post?
I keep getting bounced to the homepage.
Annoying.
Posted by Hman23
submit - backpage - refresh.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/14/2008 @ 3:53pm
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008
Try telling that to Terry McAuliffe anbd our own HELEN.
They are convinced the media is biased AGAINST Clinton.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 4:12pm
Posted by Zedman: Obama lost because he is seen as as liberal elitist much like Gore and Kerry, who both lost WV in the general election
I love it when you call Obama supporters or Obama himself an elitist. I can affort to send about $50 a month to any campaign. I don't think that Obama could loan $11 million to his campaign because he doesn't have $11 million. The Clintons can. Who is part of the elite?
By the way, Obama doesn't do well in Appalacia. He has done well in rural areas all around the country but not in Appalacia, and WV is entirely Appalacia. I am sure there is racism, but the Dems in that area fit Hillary's demographic. Four in ten of the voters were over 60 and 7 in 10 lacked a college diploma. Let's not read anything more into WV other than it is a perfect fit for Hillary's demographic.
Posted by loria at 05/14/2008 @ 4:16pm
"Ahhhh...those days of yesteryear. I have heard that Hillary Clinton may have once been a Democrat as well....many, many moons ago.
Lets color WV Red. Current past performance is the better indicator of current future performance.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008"
Well I think we need a 50 state Campain in the fall and not write off any state. Make the Rpublicans EARN them all.
Posted by SoundGuyChris at 05/14/2008 @ 4:26pm
Try telling that to Terry McAuliffe anbd our own HELEN.
They are convinced the media is biased AGAINST Clinton.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
These are folks that loved the Reverend Wright coverage, but cry foul when Clinton doesn't get at least 75% of the news coverage. She always seems to get the lionshare of coverage. Issues like lying to electorate about being under sniper fire take a backseat to guilt by association with the pastor of your church? I guess McAuliffe and our own Helen are distressed that MSM isn't doing more to destroy Obama. Fair and balanced isn't in their vocabulary.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 4:32pm
Try telling that to Terry McAuliffe anbd our own HELEN.
They are convinced the media is biased AGAINST Clinton.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
These are folks that loved the Reverend Wright coverage, but cry foul when Clinton doesn't get at least 75% of the news coverage. She always seems to get the lionshare of coverage. Issues like lying to electorate about being under sniper fire take a backseat to guilt by association with the pastor of your church? I guess McAuliffe and our own Helen are distressed that MSM isn't doing more to destroy Obama. Fair and balanced isn't in their vocabulary.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 4:33pm
madlib - Actually, I've lived in West Virginia for nearly 30 years, having moved here from Pennsylvania. I absolutely love it here! It's not filled with racist nutjobs. In fact, it is filled with a great many people who have not been exposed to ethnic or racial diversity, and often their prejudices are more "innocent" than ugly.
It's true that many of them have grown up hearing the word "nigger" and listening to racial jokes without understanding that this is offensive. However, when actually confronted with a person of color or other diversity, the people I've met seem to not connect these individuals with their prejudices. Instead, they accept them as human beings and treat them as such. When I moved here, I was considered to be a "genuine" hippie, but the neighbors went out of their way to welcome me and the "hippie" friends I came with. They brought food, water, and comfort to us when we were camping out and building our homes.
There are a great many misconceptions, both about and by West Virginians. One notion many of the working class people I've talked to have is that Obama will "take away their guns." I have no idea where that comes from, as I've not seen it printed anywhere. But it's a real biggie with a lot of hunters and gun lovers.
Another is that Obama's race will be such an issue, he won't be able to get anything else done. But when people have not been exposed to diversity, it's really unreasonable to expect them to find a way to re-educate themselves in this area. What should they do, go out and recruit blacks to move here?
Yes, racism is one reason for Clinton's win here. Ignorance about the issues is another. But to lump all West Virginians into some Deliverance-style stereotype is just as prejudiced as any other bias.
People here in West Virginia are made up of transplants like me, rural working class folks, teachers and other educated white collar workers, and a much greater variety than most people think. They are most often warm, welcoming, kind, and open to accepting anyone they get to know for more than maybe 5 minutes. They often need exposure, not censure.
West Virginia is one of the few places where I can leave my car unlocked in my workplace parking lot all day and never give it a second thought. I can leave my door unlocked when I leave my house for the day. I never have to show my ID when I write out checks unless it's in a big chain store where I haven't been before. My bank actually called me a few years ago when I had an overdraft and waited for me to come into town with a deposit.
Last year, my car broke down outside Morgantown, which is over 100 miles from my home. I had the car towed. When I told my "redneck" friends about this, no fewer than four of them said I should have called them and they'd have driven up there with their tow trucks. And they really meant it!
No one is one dimensional, including backwoods dwellers, country rednecks, or anyone else.
Posted by LeeAnnG at 05/14/2008 @ 4:40pm
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008"
Well I think we need a 50 state Campain in the fall and not write off any state. Make the Rpublicans EARN them all.
Posted by SoundGuyChris at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
I totally agree. And you are an Obama supporter that may or may not feel shortchanged by Obama's basically conceding the state to Clinton and not fighting for it. I believe that his strategy is sound, however. Why should Obama fight Clinton in her strongholds when he realistically has won the nomination? Doesn't that make him look somewhat weak and unsure of himself? Obama needs to be focusing on his fight with McCain right now, and firewalling his support in the balance of those primaries where he has strong support like Oregon. Clinton looks foolish -- like she is running a campaign for her own vanity and self aggrandizement -- which of course she is.
I thought of the voters in WV last night that did vote for Obama. Kudos!! Clinton has stereotyped WV and would lead one to believe that there aren't dissenting votes out there that are not buying in to her crock of shit. If resources and time permit, I would love to see Obama spend time in WV because I believe he could draw signficantly more support, albeit maybe not enough to win it against McCain who will play the military and no taxes and small government card (which of course is the ultimate "republican" hypocrisy. Assuming limited time and limited resources....remember the pundits are telling us it is going to a close race which I am not sure I believe (encouraging signs in the south that may bode well for a victory in WV btw), I think Obama might better spend his time with winning over more of the Hispanic vote in places like the Southwest and Florida.
Keep up the good fight!!! All of Obama's supporters are important to him and this Country -- no matter where they may be found.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 4:56pm
Well that's incredible since I currently live in Pennsylvania and these people suffer from the exact same idiocy and know-nothingness as the bulk of West Virginians.
It would go beyond the realm of good taste to repeat most of the things I've heard out of the mouths of Pennsylvanians and West Virginians alike. Same goes for Virginians, residents of Massachusetts, North Carolina, and Florida, all places I have resided. I'm not even saying they're bad people, because for the most part, they're not, just saying that they sure have a lot of opinions on immigrants and black people that aren't backed up by a shred of personal experience or proof.
And of course, since I'm white, these same ignorant assholes feel compelled to share their hatred and ignorance with me like I'm part of the club. I've quit more than one job because I couldn't handle the shit I heard on a daily basis.
I never said they were one-dimensional. I said they were racist and ignorant.
Maybe you've found the tiny pocket of West VA that wouldn't mind a black man as their CIC, in which case I say good for you.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 4:56pm
The anti-immigrant speech cracks me up most of all.
I live in Central PA coming from northern Virginia, which is one of the most racially diverse places I've ever been. The number of immigrants of any kind in central PA is almost NIL, and yet that's all these fools can complain about.
What I wouldn't give for the local McDonald's to have the ability to hire some latinos so I could get my food in under 20 minutes.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 5:02pm
Second. this is NOT bush country. WV was the only state in 84 besides Minnesota to vote for Fritz Mondale.
Posted by SoundGuyChris at 05/14/2008
I think your points are still sound, but your electoral history is off.
WV was one of six states (WV MN HI MD RI GA plus DC) to vote for Carter in 1980 (Reagan's first win)
Minnesota was the only state to vote for Mondale (his home state by 3800 votes) and the District of Columbia in Reagan's 49 state win in 1984. 525 eletoral votes is still the record in US presidential elections.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:04pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/14/2008
Couldn't have said it better myself sir.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 5:11pm
sad day when the intelligent and educated have to apologize for their lack of stupidity and ignorance and lower their own IQ's in order to make morons feel better about themselves...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/14/2008
Hey ibble,
What you and Obama and other elitists with your arrogant attitudes over your giant fucking brains don't realize is that no more than 2½% of the population have IQ's greater than 130 (and a lot of us vote Republican).
"Don't you realize that you fucking morons are too stupid to make decsions for yourselves?" isn't a winning campaign slogan.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:14pm
Elitist gibberish, once again.
As somebody with an IQ well over 130 (I should join MENSA), my powers of deduction tell me that elitist is a pejorative only in the eyes of the retarded and brain-dead.
Tell me, again, in what possible fucking way elitism can be considered a bad thing?
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 5:17pm
I love it when you call Obama supporters or Obama himself an elitist. I can affort to send about $50 a month to any campaign. I don't think that Obama could loan $11 million to his campaign because he doesn't have $11 million. The Clintons can. Who is part of the elite?
Posted by loria at 05/14/2008
Elitism isn't about money: it's about thinking you're better than those trailer trash, stupid people who don't know how to vote right.
See my post to Ibble.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:17pm
That's NOT what it's about stupid.
I think you need to purchase a dictionary.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 5:19pm
Tell me, again, in what possible fucking way elitism can be considered a bad thing?
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008
It's bad because when you tell a person you're better than him, he won't vote for you.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:19pm
When did Barack Obama say he was better than somebody?
Gee for somebody who claims to have an IQ over 130, you sure are fucking stupid.
Stop listening to Rush and watching Sean Hannity, it's dropping your IQ to Forrest Gump levels.
Oh, I'll also let you in on a little secret that BO doesn't want the idiots to know: He actually IS better than them!
I want a president who's better than me. That's why he's the fucking president!
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 5:21pm
"and here, check out my elitist asscrack..."
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/14/2008
bwaahahahahahaha...just 'bout choked on my water when I read the first half...
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008 @ 5:25pm
When did Barack Obama say he was better than somebody?
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008
When he adopted the condescending tone in SF. You see, those poor ignorant rednecks in rural Pennsylvania, the cling to their gun and their religion and resentment of imigrants because they've been hit by hard economic times and their just too ignorant to know any better.
That's what the PA voters heard.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:29pm
And there is nothing wrong with arrogantly believing you are better than most other citizens in your country if you truely believe it.
Just know that you'll never win an election if you are honest.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 5:30pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008
Elitism.
I guess your definition would also cover someone who claims he was chosen by God to be president.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 5:38pm
It's bad because when you tell a person you're better than him, he won't vote for you.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 | ignore this person
Oh I see...so you lie by omission of fact to the stupid person in order to get their vote and then do nothing but promote the agenda of the +130 IQ crowd. Very nice. Your Republican buddies wouldn't win many elections if you told the truth.
Notice how most dictators set about destroying the intelligentsia once they get into power. Intelligent people are a threat...stupid people are not. Get real MBB. The poster has a strong point that you can't refute by your feigned objection.
Posted by OneVote at 05/14/2008 @ 5:43pm
"I guess your definition would also cover someone who claims he was chosen by God to be president."
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
Hman23, Bush never said those things openly. Those comments came from a book written by christian author Stephen Mansfield. And the pundits have been spinning it out of control ever since.
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008 @ 5:53pm
I guess your definition would also cover someone who claims he was chosen by God to be president.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
Thanks for the help, Acook. But even if it was true, that would make you the opposite of an elitist. God's own son set the example that even though he was God's son, he wasn't better than anyone else, and in fact it was his duty to serve everyone else.
So even if you don't believe Jesus was deity incarnate, he believed that he was, but didn't think he was better than anyone else.
It is the message of humility that I try to live and try to ingrain in my oldest son (IQ 142). "Your smart because of an accident of birth. Things come easy for you, not because you work harder than anybody else, but because you are extremely lucky. That doesn't make you better than anybody else, just luckier. It doesn't make your opinions any more valueable. It doesn't make your values right. It just means it's realitively easier for you to achieve your goals and desires."
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 6:09pm
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008
Oh, it's not elitism because he never said them in a stump speech. They were more than just "comments" from an author. There are plenty of quotes from those who heard it from Bush himself. And as far as spinning out of control, one might say that is exactly what you and others are doing from Obama's SF speech.
Bush told a Texan evangelist that he had had a premonition of some form of national disaster happening. Bush said to James Robinson: "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."
"Not long after, Bush called James Robison (a prominent minister) and told him, 'I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for President.' "
Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention heard Bush say something similar: "Among the things he said to us was: I believe that God wants me to be president, but if that doesn't happen, it's OK.' "
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:10pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008
So Bush thinks that God wasn't picking the best person for the job?
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:13pm
If God wants Bush to be president, He obviously wants Bush to get it over anyone else. If Bush believes that, it is the most rank form of elitism I can imagine.
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:18pm
So Bush thinks that God wasn't picking the best person for the job?
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
Christians (I'm generalizing) believe we can't understand God's plan. (Actually, that's not exactly what I beleive, but it's what I think Bush believes.) John the Baptist didn't believe God could want him becuase he was a murderer. King David didn't believe God could want him because he was "the runt of the litter."
Again, even if you don't believe in God as a "being with supernatural powers", the mysteries of "God's plan" are that He chooses "servants". Christians believe that we are all sinners. (Jesus said the man who angers is as guilty as the murderer. The man who lusts is as guilty as the adulterer.) Just because God chooses you to perform a specific task doesn't mean you are better than anyone else. Just that you've been chosen to perform a service for others.
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 6:20pm
John- WVA wanted here even though most of the country did not? Is that why she is winning the popular vote?
Just because the media foreclosed on Hillary a week ago doesn't mean the political dust has settled. When all Americans' votes are counted, the magic number will be 2209. When the Florida and Michigan debacle is resolved, she will pledged delegate lag will narrow, her lead in the popular vote will finally be acknowledged, and the official addition of 2 more swing state wins to her column will be enough to convince a majority of remaining undecided superdelegates to support her.
Posted by Josh_M at 05/14/2008 @ 6:29pm
When Bush was talking on the bull horn to the firemen after 9/11, he had a very deep respect for them. Bush knew he could do their job. Bush was smarter than them, he was richer than them, he is more well connected than them, yet he still deeply respected them. He didn't think he was better than them.
These firemen (firefighters for the feminists) had their own opinions and their own values and Bush respected them. He didn't dismiss them as being too stupid to have the "right" opinions.
That is was elitism is all about. My sister is very liberal and an Obama supporter. I've told her that liberal aren't any smarter than Conservatives.* They are just more arrogant.
(*On average, liberals will have a higher IQ than the average of conservatives because 40% of Americans self identify as conservative whereas only 20% self identify as liberal. But if you take the 1,000,000 smartest liberals and conservatives, you'll get roughly the same IQ. The difference will be that the liberals think that means their values and opinions are correct, rather than just subjective opinions and values (arrogance) and the conservatives will be humble enough to recognize that this is not true.)
Posted by marybretbrad at 05/14/2008 @ 6:31pm
Hillary is a train wreck waiting to happen, and the longer she goes, the higher the probability that the Democratic party will be included in that train wreck.
Anybody with any sense knows that Hillary Clinton does not give a damn about the voices of everyone being heard. That has NEVER been her operating style, as only the voices of the well connected and moneyed interests are the ones she has been listening to her entire life.
Hearing every voice is code language for wanting to have a convention fight. Democratic leaders need to pick up on this quickly and show Hillary the door as soon as possible.
Posted by Metteyya at 05/14/2008 @ 7:27pm
"And as far as spinning out of control, one might say that is exactly what you and others are doing from Obama's SF speech."
Posted by Hman23 at 05/14/2008
I heard about it but I didn't pay any attention to it.
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008 @ 8:15pm
lol sometimes when I get so riled up I forget I'm arguing against religious zealots and nutballs.
Posted by madlib at 05/14/2008 @ 8:32pm
it's dropping your IQ to Forrest Gump levels.
Posted by madlib
careful now.
ol' forrest may not have done well in books,
but his pingpong intelligence was of the scale.........
mozart was good at music but i doubt he knew much about astronomy.
einstein wasn't all that good on the violin.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/14/2008 @ 9:20pm
Just know that you'll never win an election if you are honest.
Posted by marybretbrad
that's why elections are constantly being one.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/14/2008 @ 9:22pm
won!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/14/2008 @ 9:22pm