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RedditAppearing Friday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," former U.S. Senator John Edwards was pressed by co-host Mika Brzezinski to discuss who he had voted for in last Tuesday's North Carolina primary.
"You're saying that this candidate you voted for will be the candidate that you potentially endorse, that it looks highly likely, if I can use your words?" asked Brzezinski.
"I'd say that's very likely," replied Edwards.
"Okay, well, I'm close," said Brzezinski.
"I just voted –- I just voted for him on Tuesday, so..." said Edwards, in an apparent slip.
"So it was a him or a her that you voted for?" interjected another MSNBC host, David Schuster, seeking to clarify that Edwards had just acknowledged that he had voted for Obama.
"No, no," said Edwards, laughing off the question.
An Edwards spokesman tried to suggest that the former presidential candidate, whose endorsement is still being sought by both Obama and Clinton, didn't say "him" but instead said "'em" -- suggesting that this is southern drawl for "them" and maintaining the facade of impartiality.
Don't take the drawl seriously.
Listen to the tape.
Edwards clearly said "him."
He voted for Obama.
While he is not saying so formally quite yet -- though he does say he's "highly likely" to endorse the candidate he voted for -- the 2004 vice presidential nominee will, in reasonably short order, formalize that support with an endorsement of the senator from Illinois.
Naive observers are suggesting that the Edwards endorsement no longer matters because Obama has things wrapped up -- the Illinoisan is collecting super-delegate endorsements at a steady clip and closing in on the numbers he'll need to end the race by early June if not sooner.
But don't fall for the "too-late" argument.
In fact, Edwards has played the endorsement game smart. Both Obama and Clinton have continued talking with the former candidate, continued involving him in their calculations and continued treating him as a necessary -- perhaps even defining -- player in the process.
Obama's camp sees the Edwards endorsement as a critical step in the reintroduction of their candidate in the post-primary period before the Democratic National Convention in August. When Edwards does finally step up, it will be a high-profile event, aimed at garnering maximum media attention.
With his appeal to the working-class Democrats and white rural voters Republican John McCain will be targeting this fall, the North Carolinian will not cease to be an essential player after the primary fight is done. Indeed, he will be more essential.
Of course, his backing will not come as a surprise when it is finally announced.
The word "endorsement" won't be used. The buzz is that Obama and Edwards will talk about a partnership -- with a focus on economic issues in general and poverty in particular.
Watch for Edwards to deliver a prime-time speech at the convention -- after which he will emerge as an integral player on Barack Obama's campaign team and in the broader Democratic strategies for the fall.
Edwards may have dropped out of the presidential race in the dead of winter. But he will be in the fight by high summer. And come next January, if there is an Obama administration, John Edwards will be in the thick of it.
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Let's hope Edwards is Obama's AG & that he keeps intact his fighting spirit on behalf of us underdogs, i.e. the vast majority.
AG Edwards might also do some investigating into those criminal activities of the CheneyBush years not covered by this year's Xmas pardons.
Posted by sloper at 05/10/2008 @ 4:21pm
too late! no argument necessary.
seems like a good guy;
but just as
you gotta know when to hold 'em,
know when to fold 'em,
know when to walk away and know when to run.........
you gotta know when TO PLAY YOUR FRIKKIN' KARDS
AND GAMBLE, DAMN IT!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/10/2008 @ 4:57pm
typical lawyer.........
countin' his money while sittin at the table.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/10/2008 @ 4:59pm
I honestly could give two figs if Edwards endorses now, it's easy when things are starting to settle and the writing is on the wall. Plus Edwards is wayyyy too smart to just "slip".
Posted by yutsano at 05/10/2008 @ 5:02pm
This is simply an exercise in reading tea leaves. No one cares about Edwards' endorsement. He lost in '04, he lost in '08. Who cares what a loser thinks?
The media cares, that's who. When you have 168 hours of air to fill up while competing against 5 other all-news outlets, you will interview Hillary Clinton's garbage collector for inside information on the campaign.
Did he say 'im or 'em? good god. Must be the weekend @ The Nation.
Posted by goyadad at 05/10/2008 @ 5:18pm
But here's something that really does matter: Who is putting up all the ad money for the anti-union spots all over network tv? And what is the game plan on that?
I know that labor is responsible for everything that's wrong in this country, but it's also reached the Grover Nordquist point: so feeble it can be drowned in the bathtub. Is that what this is? Management's attempt to finish labor off for good and all?
That will be a bright day for everyone who actually works for a living in America. Everyone will have a job then--even children--working at China wages for the ownership class. Just the way god meant it to be. Right, jomamma?
Posted by goyadad at 05/10/2008 @ 5:28pm
I was an early Edwards supporter.
The time for anyone to give a shit about his endorsment is Looooong over.
This purely political stunt, of waiting until he KNEW who to endorse, has made me glad he dropped out earlier.
I had always wondered if I should vote on his record (Didn't like). Or the rhetoric he put out during his campaign (Did like).
Now I know I was wrong in my assesment of him, as a changed man.
Some of us no longer care what Edwards thinks.
And I doubt he will have ANY influence on those who never cared what he thought.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 05/10/2008 @ 7:13pm
7:15 pm
Posted by Malcontent at 05/10/2008 @ 7:13pm
Okay, Mr Nichols....
we got Obama cultists, I admit that....METTEYA for one.
we got Hillary cultists, FRANKGRITS natch...HELENDAO for sure....etc.ler (heheh)
But to be an EDWARDS Cultist is dopier than both.
WHO CARES!!??!?!?
He dropped out months ago....he refused to endorse when it could really matter, like Texas, Ohio, or Pennsylvania....
he refused to endorse when it might BARELY matter, like North Carolina....
and he's playing little PRONOUN games with Joe Scarborough.
Give it up....go back to Russ Feingold or something or the "Bloomberg/Hagel Unity Ticket" or even the last dying gasps of an Impeachment is Imminent article.
Atleast they'd be interesting.
Posted by Mask at 05/10/2008 @ 7:53pm
"When Obama loses in November....."
Posted by Slap Happy
Hey Sad Sack,
Since you're obviously a gambling "man" (whenever your stocks go up, so does your klein weiner), how about a wager?
No, not for money, but for something much more valuable.
Here's the deal:
If McTwist o' Cain wins in November, I'll agree to never again post here on the blog threads of The Nation.
If Obama wins in November it is you who must agree to forever disappear from the blog pages of The Nation.
We got a deal, McSqueal?
Oh, someone please let Slapping Himself in the Face know that the gauntlet has been dropped.
Let's see if that pussy has any shreds of honor...... and intestinal fortitude.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 8:27pm
6:30 pm
P.S. No offense to feminists out there, but Hapless from Houston has gotten a free pass here for too long.
And he's a Dubya style Texan who can't stand being insulted, but runs and hides when things get serious --which is why he puts so many here on ignore.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 8:31pm
time correction:
8:33 pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 8:33pm
Spoken like the yellow-bellied Texan that you are, Hapless in Houston.
Anyone who's not on his ignore list, please feel free to pass this on to 'em.
By the way, Hapless, I don't use the ignore list in part because so many imbeciles here use their ignore lists as some sort of "threat".
As much as I think some of the right wingers here are sad, pathetic characters --Monsta' Maasch being a prime example-- you are probably the most loathsome in my opinion. Your comments quite some time ago expressing your regret at missing out on the Vietnam war clinched the verdict.
You remind me of the character in Platoon, O'Neill, who attaches his lips to the evil Sgt Barnes' asshole and manages to survive the final battle scene not by fighting, but by hiding under the corpse of his fallen platoon mate.
O'Neill was played by John C. McGinley who's in scrubs:
tinyurl.com/6ae3kj
~Have a nice life, parasite.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 10:19pm
Edwards may have actually voted for Obama but I think he was probably speaking in the male voice anyway. Like when people say "If someone has a question, he should ask it," using the masculine as the default pronoun.
For all the talk about an Obama/Clinton ticket, in reality the real dream ticket for the democrats would be Obama/Edwards. Obama could gain some points with the white working class that Edwards appeals to with his populist message, not to mention that having a white southerner might attract voters who might otherwise be scared off by Obama's skin color and name.
Posted by AndreFromParis at 05/10/2008 @ 11:03pm
AG spot for Edwards?
Another ambulance chasing limosine liberal working for the "working man?"
Spare us...why bring back someone was is dead and was never in a winning position for anything, including the re election for his home state...no support any where...and he is a valued potential for a cabinet position?
He doesn't need a job...he needs a hobby...let him go into philanthropy since he "cares" so much for the "working poor"....
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/10/2008 @ 11:22pm
Here's my take - dismayed by Hillary's morals, narcissism... increasingly see her as not that much more evolved than Bush. Potentially, historically, a disaster but not as hideous, of course, as Cheney-Bush.
And still I recognize that for many, busy, stressed, middle class whites, she's their hope for a female version of traditional, that they're somewhat unsure of her opponent, lots of soft racism, the sort that says if you're not sure, have some doubts, go with the white, and/or the familiar name. Most of these folks are far more decent than she is, and do not see past the compelling dimensions of her persona.
Actually a lot of the Bush constituency is similar, ethnocentric, hard-working, with everyday sorts of prejudices and the sort of moral limitations that go hand in hand, say, with opposing stem cell research and resonating with "if we don't fight them over there, they'll come and fight us over here".
Posted by winyahn at 05/10/2008 @ 11:34pm
Speak of the Devil
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 11:34pm
The Monsta' not "Winy" that is
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/10/2008 @ 11:36pm
Here's a spicy meatball on the testes-stompin' schemes Hillary-Bill are floating to set her/him/them self/selves up as veep.
I'm warning you: SPICY!!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/
Posted by winyahn at 05/10/2008 @ 11:43pm
b_cool, even more humorous than guys like LV, Canyon, John & Happy voting for Cheney again in '04 is their 'last throes' of heat here in '08! They're dense as in dense onion-layers of half-truths. Unless somehow they are very young the possibility of meaningful dialog = that of WMDs showing up in Iraq.
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 12:13am
It strikes me that the mindset of many of the right wing posters here evokes the image of the country of North Korea. They (guys like LV, Maasch and Happy) live in a siege-like mentality that refuses to accept reality --the reality of who they are, or the reality of the moral ambiguity of this nation.
I suspect that any meaningful progress in the future of humankind will have to include the understanding of, and the amelioration of, this all too common strain of human intransigence. Tools such as functional MRI and other types of brain scans are getting us closer to a general understanding of brain mechanisms and areas of control, but the next wave of experimental breakthroughs will probably require an even more fine grained level of detail to get at what really makes us tick.
It can't happen soon enough in my opinion.
Meanwhile our planet is coming under increasing peril, and there are a vast number of potential land mines that lie between the present and a brighter future.
"It's a fascinating time to be alive" is perhaps the best face to put on the situation.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/11/2008 @ 12:58am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/10/2008
And I'm sure George Bush drives a '97 Taurus and drinks budweiser.
At least John Edwards is a successful ambulance chaser that has earned his own way to where he is. Georgie Pordgie hasn't been successful at much of anything and never had to actually work a day in his useless life.
Posted by madlib at 05/11/2008 @ 01:19am
I was an Edwards supporter. I thought then and still think that he is better by far than Obama and Clinton. I thought he did exactly the right thing in not endorsing candidates who couldn't be trusted to push for robust reform (one because she can't be trusted to do anything she says she will, and the other because he wasn't even really saying he would).
But the politically naive are not the one's who think this is unimportant, it is people like Nichols who confuse being correct with being important. Edwards was too far to the left for most democrats, and for some reason didn't even do as well with the activist class as he should have. (they were split from the beginning between him, Obama and Kucinich to a lesser extent. Given that Obama had more centrist policy proposals than anyone but Richardson, and that Kucinich simply could not win, this amounts to a failure by Edwards' campaign) He can't play any role in securing the nomination for Obama because Obama has already done that. Obama does not have the problem with the left wing of the party, so there is no one for Edwards to turn out in the fall.
Now some commentary on stupidity:
Goya, Why should we care what losers think? I remember enlightened discourse like this when I dropped two passes at basketball tryouts. I heard all about losers then and about how no one cared about them. This is really brilliant analysis. Becuase as we all know, no one who has ever lost a presidential election has gone on to be important politically. Real bright. Because no one was president from 68-73. And Al Gore never won a Nobel prize. And Ted Kennedy has never gotten any legislation passed in the Senate.
Jo, He is already involved in philanthropy. He didn't chase ambulances so much as doctors who fucked kids up for their whole life. Maybe the thought of kids with palsy doesn't bug you. It does me. I like the fact that people were broken for doing that. I like justice. That Edwards got rich on that doesn't please me or bother me. That he put that money into a foundation for addressing poverty in NC does make the whole story rather nice. But to go back for a moment, is it the happiness of children or justice that you are against?
And thank goodness for the new message box. Preview option is still messed up though.
Posted by Poppolphil at 05/11/2008 @ 03:19am
Spare us...why bring back someone was is dead and was never in a winning position for anything, including the re election for his home state...no support any where...
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/10/2008 | ignore this person
Hmmmm...
this sounds like an absolutely perfect description of Maasch's pick in the Republican primary...the ONLY true conservative...Fred Thompson.
What'd he get...3 delegates before he gave up?
Posted by Lillian at 05/11/2008 @ 03:22am
As the most formidable & feared conservative poster by TN's writers, as evidenced by being banned by TN twice,...
Posted by HAPPY3 at 05/10/2008 | ignore this person
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Happy, so thick he actually forgot his login to this board...TWICE...now pretending he's "the most formidable & feared conservative poster"...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh lord that's funny!
Posted by Lillian at 05/11/2008 @ 03:23am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/11/2008 obama/edwards 08
Obama VP slot demographic priorities:
1- (to counter racist charges/fears) he needs a WHITEY
2- (to counter elitist charges/fears) he needs BLUE collar appeal
3- (to counter 3am phone & Muslim/whisper charges/fears) he needs a COMMANDO military badass
4- (to counter inexperience charges/fears) he needs experience
You can see how Hillary+implicit Bill goes a long way... but how many like me might end up puking all over the voting booth?
Richardson's "weak" on #1.
Edwards' weak on #3 & 4
Webb's questionable on #2, weak on #4.
Hagel??
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 09:42am
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008
Clark? And as lagniappe, he used to be an FOB.
Posted by canaar at 05/11/2008 @ 09:58am
What'd he get...3 delegates before he gave up?
Posted by Lillian at 05/11/2008
Correct on Thompson,
And when he lost didn't habg sround pretending he mattered...he appropiately left the stage for he was not important, his time CAME AND WENT...
I liked Thompson, but he,like Edwards was never in it and is gone, not to be ressurected.....unlike Edwards...who, for some reason is still with you nuts on the left, like a bad case of the hicups....as if he is important to anyone.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 @ 10:37am
I need to cut down how many Lefties I see here!
Posted by HAPPY 09/21/2007 @ 5:18pm
Couldn't take b-kool up on his bet?
Too much of a challenge, for the king of ignore?
Shouldn't be that big of a deal considering you probably only see rio,LL and maash when you log on.
Posted by Malcontent at 05/11/2008 @ 10:38am
Posted by Poppolphil at 05/11/2008
I agree..
I do not want children or people hurt...
I do not mind he made millions, I celebrate the ability...
His cases have been proven wrong after the fact...
He ain't a "working man", he is an elitist from the minute he became wealthy and decided he knew how to "help" others...always AFTER they become rich putz's like him discover their "hidden wisdom and talent for the smaller guy"..FRAUD with nice haircuts....
He IS a loser...
He needs to leave the scene and find a hobby or get a charity he can devote his time too instead of "helping" the rest of us.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 @ 10:45am
Maasch, you really do not understand what lawyer does. the cases that were proven wrong were not HIS cases. he argued them but he was not the only player, there were judges and juries involved and it was they who made the decisions.
what the lawyer does, and must do, is make the best possible case for his client. that is why it is futile to blame OJs lawyers for the travesty of justice that occurred. it is the judge and the jury which is to blame.
Posted by emile duBois at 05/11/2008 @ 10:56am
Tornado season setting record pace
(Joe Joyce, NECN) - Severe storms spawned more deadly tornadoes through the Midwest on Saturday. Winds strong enough to level homes, uproot trees, flip cars and destroy anything in their paths.
Over 36 tornadoes moved through Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and Arkansas. Quick violent storms moving at 50 MPH gave people little time chance to run for cover.
Tragically 19 people died from these storms and the death toll could continue to climb as they sort through debris.
This tornado season is one of the most active in the past 50 years. A RECORD PACE WITH CLOSE TO 800 TORNADOES SINCE JANUARY, WHICH IS DOUBLE THE AMOUNT WE SHOULD HAVE BY NOW.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008 @ 11:29am
oops,
sorry that was supposed to go on the 2.3 million thread.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008 @ 11:30am
Posted by emile duBois at 05/11/2008
I understand this fully...which is why OJs lawyers are not heros in any sense of the word...and neither is Edwards a savior...
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 @ 12:23pm
Ibble.....if you can find it in the archives, a year ago I called Edwards/Obama the dream team. Got the ticket reversed is all.
FZ ... one of the classes I teach is Meteorology so I keep current as I can on these sorts of things. This years winter tornadoes alone is 5x the previous norm (125 vs 25) and the highest number EVER.
And thanks to the Nation for at LEAST getting the box bigger. Although I really would appreciate my HTML code back! Guess everyone will need to do the tinyurl thing from now on...but no bold, no color, no hotlinks still sucks
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/11/2008 @ 12:30pm
This tornado season is one of the most active in the past 50 years. A RECORD PACE WITH CLOSE TO 800 TORNADOES SINCE JANUARY, WHICH IS DOUBLE THE AMOUNT WE SHOULD HAVE BY NOW.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008
Doesn't matter which thread...
Was the year 1300 in the midwest a record year, too?
Don't knw? Neither does ALGORE...in fact the weather man can't get it right tomorrow...
What the last 2 years a record low in hurricanes?
But...I did stay in a Holiday Inn express one time..
I am amazed what you will accept as fact and what you hold against others as they accept another set of facts....and both are probably wrong, and right...
Science in this area has been wrong or off too many times by too much to accept it all, and then when politicians jump on the bandwagon....you have GOT to be even more skeptical...then add ALGORE name to the preaches and it is over for all but the sheep.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 @ 12:39pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/11/2008 |
I'm sorry....Gypsies?
We know WHERE mihnea is now....but WHEN?
1927? Bratianu Brothers still in power?
Posted by Mask at 05/11/2008 @ 1:08pm
Science in this area has been wrong or off too many times by too much to accept it all, and then when politicians jump on the bandwagon....you have GOT to be even more skeptical...then add ALGORE name to the preaches and it is over for all but the sheep.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008
∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
dude,
of course i know science is wrong many times.
but science made your computer, too.
i hope "they're" wrong this time.
hooray.
if they're not wrong, however......
∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
but think about this,
oil's almost done.
it's like the last few slices of pizza at a drunken frat party.
the possibility of dirty, dirty conflicts are endless.
step into the future.
∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008 @ 1:23pm
He needs to leave the scene and find a hobby or get a charity he can devote his time too instead of "helping" the rest of us.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 | ignore this person
Uh John...Edwards has a 'hobby' that he's devoting his time to...it's working for poor people...you know, the thing your FAULTING him for.
Posted by Lillian at 05/11/2008 @ 1:31pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008 | ignore this person
Frosty, JOHNMAASCH already made up his mind a long time ago. He will NOT now allow himself to be confused by mere facts or logic.
Posted by Lillian at 05/11/2008 @ 1:40pm
Ibble... Romanian redneck? That's a very generous assessment of minny. Even cutting her lots of slack language-wise, her word salads and coherence-free posts suggest something more constitutional.
con·sti·tu·tion·al (dictionary.reference.com definition #4.) belonging to or inherent in the character or makeup of a person's body or mind: a constitutional weakness for sweets.
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 3:09pm
So, thoughtful Obama bloggers lean toward Clark?
This is some really treacherous territory. Please read the article -
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/
This as an extremely serious problem! How NOT to absorb the Clintons in the veep slot.
Think of how nasty the behind the scenes must be getting. They're simultaneously putting chains on the beast and stroking it, reassuring it. But even if it seems to calm down for a spell. Even if it turns for the time being, begins showing off it's charm... The future's grim. Because the future is the past.
Clark might be the perfect weapon, or he might absolutely refuse / be forced to refuse based on his relationship with she-who-must-be-obeyed.
Clark is otherwise strong on #1, 3, and 4, but not #2 (and this is a major concern) of my big four Obama VP criteria:
1- (to counter racist charges/fears) he needs a WHITEY
2- (to counter elitist charges/fears) he needs BLUE collar appeal
3- (to counter 3am phone & Muslim/whisper charges/fears) he needs a COMMANDO military badass
4- (to counter inexperience charges/fears) he needs experience
I think Obama may go the way of finding something for all the greedy brats to do. He can pull this off, but he'll have to avoid HRC in the VP role at all costs.
Hillary would have to be waterboarded to accept a cabinet position? What's the least toxic role that big O can force her highness into, while achieving what he needs - The Hill and Bill "We love Obama" Show shadowing McCain where-ever he goes?
With this economy, two wars, the risk of a shake up in year 2 at the VP slot wouldn't be wise.
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 3:29pm
Edwards is too cautious. So, he votes for Obama privately..so what? What bugs me is the contradiction: the sort of "what's best for the party/people" tone of Edwards' interview on CBS today yet he's been the only candidate reluctant for many months now to exhibit a modicum of courage (for the benefit of the party/people) and back a candidate regardless of the political cost should he pick the "wrong one." Waay too cunning.
Posted by hrayovac at 05/11/2008 @ 4:50pm
Follow the money ... all the talk about hard working people being white & surrogates pumping veep slot for Billary add up the nothing more than negotiating tactics to extort $$$ from the Obama campaign & the DNC ... pay off our debts & WE'LL GO QUIETLY .... DEBTS OWED TO Mark Penn & Co plus ourselves. The small suppliers who've been stiffed will stay stiffed. Just ask the little people on Martha's Vineyard who are still owed from bills the royal couple ran up for staff expenses there back in the '90s.
The sooner the Clintons fade from the national consciousness, the better off we'll be.
Posted by sloper at 05/11/2008 @ 5:00pm
FZ // love the frat party metaphor!
For all the "unbelievers" of science out there, I've put together a few links of interest on climate, etc. at:
http://tinyurl.com/5k7r67
Curse you nation for the lack of HTML support (but we DO appreciate the larger box)
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/11/2008 @ 5:33pm
Wow, Libs tell us how you really feel.
Ibb - So you're from the south. That explains the good nature. Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. Don't hear non-black southerners represent the south too often. It's almost like they are ashamed. Too bad. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
On another note: Obama/ Edwards ticket ain't bad but Obama/ Clark would be better IMO. To choose Clinton would kill his chances at pres.
Posted by k330k at 05/11/2008 @ 7:25pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/11/2008
IBB, question for you...
If Obama chose Wes Clark as VP, whose to say that Billary wouldn't send a torpedo his way and sink that ship? Remember, it would come out that he got fired as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces by Slick Willy during the Bosnian conflict. Him getting fired like that made him a national disgrace, not to mention the military would not be please with a guy like that in the Veep slot. Just thought I'd ask.
Posted by ACook at 05/11/2008 @ 9:22pm
Ibble, glad to hear your sense that Clark has strong appeal with the blue collar crowd... I know very little about this, and about ACook's point.
Let's just review this once more --
FIRST consider the media-Hillary collusion. As nasty and rich and power-addicted as she is, the media spins her as the blue collar fighter. So this is what I mean by her power which Obama has to negotiate... She wouldn't let Clark eclipse her. I may be wrong but I am thinking she needs some role, and in this Obama must calculate the possibility in year 1,2,3 that she has to be demoted. Supposedly the Veep role is the prize she may already be demanding / threatening about. I think it's more than the mega bail out -- 20m in hole!! OK both/and!!
I think it's mainly grandiosity and she can't bear returning to only being a senator as a loser /slash/ is working on an angle that sets her up for at least 2016.
Blue collar whites think she's all the media tells them she is. This fact has got to be a major topic in the Obama situation room!
She just scares the crap out of me in the VP slot. BUT she is smart, as is Bill. MAYBE MAYBE they can make her sign in blood to stick within certain bounds.
For ex., she would agree to:
A- Obama health care in term 1, then universal for in term 2.
B- Co-leading on the withdrawal.
AND for really good behavior, she would earn: 2016
Hopefully in '15, someone will Vince Fosterize her.
Anyone who doubts the stakeholders aren't all over this is naive. We're talking potentially outrageous WORLD POWER, the soup, the salad, the whole enchilada, for the whole of the foreseeable future. Insane, scary, stranger, realer than fiction.
But think of all those six pack Joe/Martha's and all them Hipanicos!! P-E-N-N-S-Y-L-V-A-N-I-S!! C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A!!! T-E-X-A-S!!!
Hope the voting booth comes with a barf bag.
First black, first woman, etc. Got to admit, there's some big time checkmarks in the plus column.
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 9:52pm
And don't forget, happy wife/happy life. Hillary has Bill and Wes stuffed in either side of her bra. She's packing man!
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 9:58pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/11/2008
IBB, that's not my characterization of Wes Clark, it's the MSM's. When they got wind of it, it was all over the news. However, I do disagree that if Obama gets the nod, that Clark should be considered a viable VP candidate.
Posted by ACook at 05/11/2008 @ 10:09pm
Edwards is not planning the standard, meaningless endorsement. He knows perfectly well that standing in front of a camera and proclaiming support for Obama would gain little to nothing. Rather than judging Edwards from the banal, tedious political-think portraying him as predictable political self-server shamelessly believing that the herd should move on his whim and follow his lead, I applaud his decision to wait for a more appropriate moment when he can push the party (again) towards the populism and the specificity of issues that got him essentially blacklisted by party elites and big donors. He has acknowledged what the slothful thinking conservative posters her have stated (though for different reasons.): people don't need John Edwards to tell them what to think or do. But if he has ideas and solutions to address the actual difficulties facing real workers and families, he will prove himself relevant. Like Al Gore.
Edwards had a lot going for him but was never more than an asterisk or petty distraction to the Wall Street-sanctioned (and paid for) Obama vs. Hillary matchup. What many people seem to ignore is just how much time, energy and passion John Edwards and his wife have put into their efforts to address and fight poverty over the past three or four years. Don't underestimate the role Elizabeth Edwards plays on her husband; the two are inseparably close and the recent reoccurrence of her cancer has significant impact on what they chose to pursue as lifetime goals. The Edwards are planning to announce an ambitious plan designed to fight poverty and this goal is far more central to their lives than an empty 5 minutes of media attention focused on a silly endorsement. The Edwards' have moved the parameters for almost all the policy initiatives put forth from Obama and Clinton. They have been working closely with grassroots organizations, unions, academics, and so on, to generate real solution to the economic troubles facing this nation.
By the way, ibbleblibble, I don't think Clark has any credibility with the average voter--he's just a strategic asset dreamed up by party insiders to counter the Republican military vote. What does this guy represent or stand for?
Posted by Oustbush at 05/11/2008 @ 10:17pm
Posted by Oustbush at 05/11/2008
Al Bore has never been relevant. Never has, and never will be.
Posted by ACook at 05/11/2008 @ 10:42pm
With all the spying going on here at home front by HOMELAND SECURITY and the privacy being threatened daily by evil sinister GOPers and oil executives wanting to cancel the constitution, keep a black man or a whie woman out of the WH,...wellll...how long will it be before LIBSWARNEDYOUSHEISTOTALLYINSANE is discoverd and lose on the streets of America?
When will they come and get it? Cage it, at least...we are not safe...none of us are with CONNEDHIMSELF a free man/woman/whatever..
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/11/2008 @ 10:47pm
Ted Kennedy is right and every Dem pol by this point knows it. Not only does Billary's racist & incompetent conduct of the campaign disqualify HRC from a vp slot, but so do the last 2 years of their White House residency, particularly the selling of pardons & commutations, most notoriously to billionaire convicted felon Marc Rich and to the murderous FALN terrorist bombers of Fraunces Tavern in exchange for Puerto Rican support of HRC's '00 senate campaign. HRC is not a plus to a national ticket, but a lightening rod for fact-based negative attack ads from the GOP that otherwise would not be possible. Rahm Emanuel voted to invade Iraq & supports its continued occupation by the US military, this has far more to do with his defending Billary & promoting her for the vp slot. He is also a longtime Billary fundraiser, close to a recipient of much of those funds, Mark Penn who is owed millions by Billary, a debt the Billary campaign is now trying to extort from the Obama campaign in exchange for going away quietly.
Posted by sloper at 05/11/2008 @ 10:47pm
I respectfully disagree on any boring white guy. Obama almost needs Hillary, and could still lose. Recall how readily MSM slammed Kerry, how readily Americans lapped up the koolaide, seeing him as distorted as Limbaugh painted him. Despite the hideous Iraq story! Anna Nicole/ Brittany stuff is more in keeping with the populace' shallowness and short attention span. Take a peek:
"I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife"s an atheist," said Mr Simpson, drawing on a cigarette outside the fire station in Williamson, a coalmining town of 3,400 people surrounded by lush wooded hillsides.
I can hardly blame this fine Mr Simpson considering the garbage that serves at news, e.g., ABC's debates... Wright vs Hagee airtime metric is just a hint of what's ahead.
Cheney-Murdoch to Obama, "You don't %@*!#$ with the Corporate-Military-Industrial-Exxon-GE-Viacom complex boy".
Posted by winyahn at 05/11/2008 @ 10:56pm
hey,
maybe obama will pick michelle for vp.
follow bill clinton's precedent........
heheh
Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:44:18 PM
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008 @ 11:38pm
Over 36 tornadoes moved through Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and Arkansas. Quick violent storms moving at 50 MPH gave people little time chance to run for cover.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/11/2008
Did I say no tornadoes the other day? I seem to have been mistaken.
aahhhh, there's nothing quite like a short warning rain wrapped F-3 to get you excited and drill the big picture of life straight home.
Like we say in Oklahoma, if you don't like the weather, wait a minute.
Oh well, I didn't need that pair of underwear anyway.
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 12:06am
800 since january........
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 12:28am
I think y'all should take another look at Webb. Going by Winyhan's standards:
1) WHITE (duh, with a VietNamese wife)
2) Blue Collar (son of factory workers, ran and won the Senate on a populist platform)
3) Military Commando (Ex-Marine and going into point four)
4) Experience (Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, longtime Washington player)
So he's not that bad at all, but just a newbie to both the Dems and the Senate. Though the rumors I have heard is he and Obama have a great working relationship.
Posted by yutsano at 05/12/2008 @ 12:49am
Al Bore has never been relevant. Never has, and never will be.
Posted by ACook at 05/11/2008 | ignore this person
Oh sure...I can see how someone like you might find an intelligent, well-read, Nobel-prize winning, ex Vice President of the most powerful nation on earth who can speak from memory for hours about scientific principles, research, and findings...boring. I mean...he uses all those 'big words' and stuff, right?
But "not relevant"? Really? Have you noticed how everyone...from schools to businesses, to governments (and even certain Republican presidential candidates) are all talking about trying to do their part for the environment...to 'go green'...to find ways to do something about global warming?
Who do you think brought that about? Santa Claus?
Seriously, do you even try to keep up?
Or are you content to just let your 'knee jerk' do all of your communicating...just because Al Gore is a Democrat?
Posted by Lillian at 05/12/2008 @ 12:53am
Is Happy STILL posting here? I have several Happys on Ignore - which one is posting now? I wonder if he will shoot himself, or perhaps move to Burma, when the Democrats run the White House AND both houses of Congress next January... Can't happen soon enough, either way.
Posted by sjduskin at 05/12/2008 @ 01:20am
I'm liking Webb. A weakness is he's not a household name. He's awesome for the reasons that should matter...
You have to get in the mindset of the folks who pushed George W. (2004 especially) and recently Hillary to victories in big states.
Posted by winyahn at 05/12/2008 @ 10:45am
Webb rocks.
Gephardt anyone?
Oprah?
Byrd!
General Jack Keane
Posted by winyahn at 05/12/2008 @ 11:18am
As for the VP position, if you are looking for a working class, military experience and ready to step in type, Obama could do worse than retired General Anthony Zinni. He's a former four star from the Corps, he has exstensive diplomatic experience in the Mid East, he is ungodly smart and has always done a terrific job whenever and wherever he' s been on duty. I know he voted for W. in '00, but he may be sufficiently disillusioned with the current GOP so that he might be the right guy for the VP slot.
Posted by The Goods at 05/12/2008 @ 11:34am
ACOOK is a sweetheart. she's just trying to get me all revved up by parroting the stupidest non sequiter rightwing chum talking points she can remember.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/12/2008 | ignore this person
OK...no arguement from me on that one.
However, I DO wish she'd occasionally try to engage in rational and relective contemplation...rather than the simple reflexive regurgitation that we usually see from her.
Posted by Lillian at 05/12/2008 @ 11:36am
Zinni's an interesting angle. He or Webb could score points in the campaign role of supervising a safe withdrawal, restoring our military, taking care of vets, collaborating with allies on Afghanistan.
Obama and Mr. Military could fly to Iraq and Afghanistan in July...
Hispanics deserve a direct, distinct plan. We need Richardson and Hillary featured prominently in Texas, California and Florida.
I think they also need some fresh approaches to media. Somehow get this sort of story to have some legs: Big networks giving 8-homes elitist / milionnaire McCain a pass are unpatriotic.
Posted by winyahn at 05/12/2008 @ 12:05pm
lol - ACOOK is an interesting one. not quite sure what her real deal is, and not to boast, but i'm usually pretty good at this thing.
Posted by ibbleblibble
oh, yeah!?
prove it!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 1:28pm
well,
people have mistaken me for austrian,
and black folk tell me,
"you play good for a white boy",
and,
i can play sweet home alabama on the banjo,
so yeah,
close.
keep on closing, brother.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 3:29pm
i can play sweet home alabama on the banjo,
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008
Can I request "Call Me The Breeze"?
Posted by Mask at 05/12/2008 @ 3:54pm
Please, no ex-generals. Nothing personal against Zinni or starchy Wes, but our country is militarized enough as it is, no need to reinforce the dominant complex.
We're also a sufficiently murderous people, lord knows, so please, please, no more talk about killing our politicians, as in the dumb inhuman crack above about Forsterizing HRC. Do as you will be done by.
Posted by sloper at 05/12/2008 @ 4:49pm
"Rockstar" and "Figured You Out" by Nickleback please.
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 4:50pm
but she's a sweety nonetheless...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/12/2008
Thanks, IBB.
LUV YA BACK... ;-)
Posted by ACook at 05/12/2008 @ 6:14pm
"However, I DO wish she'd occasionally try to engage in rational and relective contemplation...rather than the simple reflexive regurgitation that we usually see from her."
Posted by Lillian at 05/12/2008
Lil, the only regurgitation is coming from you. Al Gore is an opportunist, nothing more.
Posted by ACook at 05/12/2008 @ 6:25pm
Lil, the only regurgitation is coming from you. Al Gore is an opportunist, nothing more.
Posted by ACook at 05/12/2008 | ignore this person
.
Really? An opportunist? How do you figure that?
I mean, is quite well known that the man has made it his personal mission, for the past 30 years, to read and study everything he could get his hands on concerning the research and science related to global warming.
Really dear, please, without regurgitating any Republican talking points, try explaining the rational thought process that translate that into "opportunist".
Posted by Lillian at 05/12/2008 @ 7:25pm
nickleback?
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 8:18pm
Posted by Lillian at 05/12/2008
Seriously Lil, the guy is not too concerned with the environment the way you are.
Were you aware that the former senator is the chairman of the private hedge fund sponsor, Generation Investment Management? They have offices in the US and the UK. They have investments in Novo Nordisk, the world's largest insulin maker, Nestlé, the world's largest food company as well as Johnson Controls, the largest maker of automotive seats and batteries. They have investments in Autodesk, GE, UBS-AG, Staples, and a host of other companies. His green investing venture fund closed at $5bn. His green investment vehicle closed at $683M. The company has other private investments that they aren't required to disclose. His "carbon offsets" are paid to the firm, which in turn pays him back though the fees collected from large companies who are looking to go green. His firm also manages the assets of institutional investors such as pension funds, foundations and endowments, as well as those of select high net worth individuals. The firm has entered into a partnership with Lombard Odier Darier Hentsch & Cie and is the oldest firm of private bankers in Geneva and one of the largest in Switzerland and in Europe. Can you say mergers and aquisitions?
He's a partner at US private equity group Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers(which raised $500m to target large corporate 'green' ventures).
He's on the Board of Directors for Apple Computer and a Senior Advisor to Google.
Posted by ACook at 05/12/2008 @ 10:00pm
"Call Me the Breeze" is a song by J. J. Cale.
Like many Cale songs, "Call Me the Breeze" has been covered numerous times by an assortment of musicians, most notably Lynyrd Skynyrd (on their album Second Helping) and Johnny Cash. Many of the cover versions available are done as tributes to Lynyrd Skynyrd.
from qwiki.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 10:05pm
Sorry. Nickelback.
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 10:42pm
Nickelback?
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 10:51pm
Quit it!
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 10:55pm
canada's worst export since .........
ever!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 11:10pm
worse than molson canadian......
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 11:17pm
molsoncoors canadian.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 11:21pm
Yeah, they have some controversy, but nobody can ever say the boys can't sing!
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 11:22pm
mighty fine pickin an a singin
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 11:34pm
i refuse!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/12/2008 @ 11:34pm
There's a Sam Adams Octoberfest in it for ya!
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 11:40pm
Fine, a Unibroue Seigneuriale then.
Posted by Benchrest at 05/12/2008 @ 11:51pm
tuvok obama.
lol.
i sure hope he doesn't pick "captain janeway" for vp.
i bet he'll go for the The Emergency Medical Hologram aka the doctor.
easy to make invisible, white and bald. perfect.
<b><i>OBAMA/THE DOCTOR '08</i></b>
<i>let the voyage begin</i>
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008 @ 12:44am
well, o.k.
but only if i get to play them backwards so you can understand what canadians are really up to.
let the voyage begin........
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008 @ 12:46am
Where no one has gone before...
Posted by Benchrest at 05/13/2008 @ 01:19am
but only if i get to play them backwards so you can understand what canadians are really up to. Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008
Interesting. And I thought Canadiens were a gentle people. Who knew?
Posted by k330k at 05/13/2008 @ 08:13am
One thing's for sure....need a starship captain....hire a Canadian!
Captain Kirk....Canadian
Commander Adama (orginal)....Canadian
Commander J.J. Adams.....Canadian
Co-Pilot to Capt. Lone Starr (Spaceballs)....Canadian
Penis-shaped rocket used for EVIL purposes.....Canadian
Old dude to help the space aliens find their underwater pods.....Canadian (Hume Cronyn in 'Cocoon')
Original voice for Zapp Brannigan from "Futurama".....supposed to have been Phil Hartman!
Posted by Mask at 05/13/2008 @ 09:05am
obama/fz '08
if granholm can do michigan, I can do america!
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008 @ 1:27pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008
Sorry, Constitution has a big "No Canadians Need Apply" sign on the Presidency.
Posted by Mask at 05/13/2008 @ 3:10pm
constitution?!?!?!?
that was struck down in the signing statement to HB245.
check the "frosty clause".
just like they did for fox in mexico.
plus, i'd "only" be vp.
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008 @ 3:19pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/13/2008
No, I'm sorry.
Hey....wanna captain a starship? You guys real good at that!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 05/13/2008 @ 3:42pm
Correctly if I'm wrong Jomamma, but weren't you the one claiming that the Clintons had the nomination all sewn up for...months? Let's just say that whatever method you use to make your predictions - tea leaves, scapulary of turtles, or whatever - you might want to try something different. Or better yet, I suggest you go work for the McCain campaign - not that it will make any difference on the outcome, but it would be nice to watch him go down in a spectacular flaming pile of poop.
Posted by srjenkins at 05/13/2008 @ 6:06pm
Posted by srjenkins at 05/13/2008
Yes, I did predict a Clinton candidacy...I am committed to her on the ballot, but it appears that she may be in trouble....but the Clintons are, if nothing else, crafty...beware.
I am not a McCain supporter, but I do think Obama will not win the WH..I have been wrong before and I have been right before...and predicting politics is probably the worst guess possible given all the variables.
Anyway, Obama couyld win this, but I would be surprised if he loses...and you on the left might be surprised by how much ....and I am sure if he does lose, the entire left will claim racism instead of looking at the very policies that would keep someone like me voting for him.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/13/2008 @ 7:28pm
Posted by srjenkins at 05/13/2008
Yes, I did predict a Clinton candidacy...I am committed to her on the ballot, but it appears that she may be in trouble....but the Clintons are, if nothing else, crafty...beware.
I am not a McCain supporter, but I do think Obama will not win the WH..I have been wrong before and I have been right before...and predicting politics is probably the worst guess possible given all the variables.
Anyway, Obama couyld win this, but I would be surprised if he loses...and you on the left might be surprised by how much ....and I am sure if he does lose, the entire left will claim racism instead of looking at the very policies that would keep someone like me voting for him.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/13/2008 @ 7:28pm
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/13/2008
Come on, John. You want to pretend that the emphasis on Barack "Hussien" Obama, Rev. Wright, the charges that Obama is Muslim, or on and on and on - and let's make no mistake about it, those misconceptions along with his skin color will be - if he were to lose - driving people to vote against Obama. Compared to this crowd, people that truly have issues with Obama's policies - who actually have figured them out and disagree - aren't even a drop in the bucket.
But, if you think McCain is going to win this election, I can only say you might want to put down that toothpaste from China - it's affecting your judgment. There are people like my dad, lifelong Republican who uses that tired line of "socially liberally, fiscally conservative" (which I call code for not wanting to pay for your beliefs), who think having a guy in the White House who was subjected to torture for years is a bad idea. Add in all the Christian Right, immigration, libertarian and all the fringe elements of the Republican party - and you have a someone that can't win with moderates and who also can't win his partisans. McCain is the worst of both world for Republicans. Here's a prediction, much more talk of Democrat-lite in 2008.
Posted by srjenkins at 05/13/2008 @ 7:51pm
but I do think Obama will not win the WH..Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/13/2008
Now as long as we can keep JOHN NICHOLS from predicting that Obama WILL win....
he stands a good chance!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 05/13/2008 @ 8:53pm
Today I heard the first racist comment ever, that actually made me feel good.
Right here in the buckle of the bible belt, one of my older, red-neckier customers commented to another customer," I guess I'll be votin' for the nigger. I'm sure as hell not voting republican again, they've got everything all screwed up."
He may be too old to change, but perhaps he will vote in his actual self interest, once before he dies.
Posted by Malcontent at 05/14/2008 @ 12:12am
"Right here in the buckle of the bible belt, one of my older, red-neckier customers commented to another customer," I guess I'll be votin' for the nigger. I'm sure as hell not voting republican again, they've got everything all screwed up."
Posted by Malcontent at 05/14/2008
Eric, he was only joking to the other customer. He didn't mean a word of it.
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008 @ 5:57pm
SR, "..if he were to lose - driving people to vote against Obama. Compared to this crowd, people that truly have issues with Obama's policies - who actually have figured them out and disagree - aren't even a drop in the bucket. ."
I think there are about 40% of voters who will not vote for him because of his policies(and that will require a HUGE bucket), and maybe up to 15% of democrats who will not vote for him because they feel Hillary was screwed...
All I am saying is I think there are enough problems that you seem to miss..
During the final election run, I know his resume is the most important issue that is easiest to spot...for being an "organiser" at the street level is about as valuable in the real world affairs as staying in a Holiday Inn Express for 1 night...
As for me and many like me, I see the failure of Bush admin to live up to conservative ideals the reason for the state of the Repub party today and the fact there are no conservative leaders ANYWHERE to be seen as the main reason for the losing record they are building up...we conservatives have no horse in this race as we are looking at the slate of 3 weaklings...if I were an enemy of America I would be sharpening my weapons ...after this election we will be "open season" targets as we self destruct our economy with higher taxes accross the board for everyone, our capital scurrying for the borders, and we open our selves up like a wolf on its back exposing our necks if the Dems bolt Iraq faster than the AQs can reoccupy and re arm..
The repubs are in such a bad self inflicted position that either Hillary or Obama should be able to win every seat and the WH...McCin should have no chance, but I don't see that as the case.
I could be wrong..but other than the orgasmic pantings from the left at the possibility to get into the treasury with either dems, there are some issues they might have to over come first.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/14/2008 @ 6:05pm
Posted by ACook at 05/14/2008
You speak for this person?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:32pm
Posted by JOMAMMA at 05/14/2008
This is one of the more honest breakdowns of the elections I have seen from any of our local conservatives on this site. Most of them seem to want to deny what's happening. I'm glad you are truthful, I tip my hat to you. I don't know about the open season target thing. Considering we don't often get attacked by terrorists to begin with before 9/11.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:39pm
I'm in actual process of listening to Sen Edwards speak and endorse Sen. Obama on television at 6:30 pm e.t. on 05/14/2008. This is a brand new world and we, the Wal Mart economy citizens, need to be involved. He is correct there are "two Americas".
Posted by julien38 at 05/14/2008 @ 6:52pm
Yes, just saw the Edwards endorsement .. have always liked the man. Downright inspiring. Novemeber's looking better all the time.
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/14/2008 @ 7:04pm
If this is going to get us One Payer healthcare so be it. I'll vote for Obama even if I never liked him.
Posted by nursevic at 05/14/2008 @ 7:07pm
WHOA!!! Nursevic is saying she'll vote for Obama?! What a day! What a day!!!
Posted by nicR at 05/14/2008 @ 7:15pm
I hope they run together!!!! Obama Edwards!!!! YES!!!! They can then share the same fate as Kerry/Edwards!!!!
Posted by TonyB657 at 05/15/2008 @ 08:21am