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RedditPennsylvania is one of the oldest states in the union, with the third highest number of voters over 65. But it's also got almost 700,000 college students, something the Obama campaign is well aware of. If he can capture the same sort of massive turnout that helped propel his victory in Iowa, he could close Clinton's gap.
The Obama campaign has been working hard in Pennsylvania: they ran "Spring Break Internships" in March, bringing in college students from around the country to Pennsylvania for voter outreach. He has an enthusiastic cadre of young supporters in the state too: Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey credits his teenage daughters with pushing him to publicly endorse Obama.
So Obama will likely be helped by the fact that many of the non-partisan voter outreach efforts in Pennsylvania have targeted college campuses, such as HeadCount and the United States Student Association. This weekend the Hip Hop Summit Action Network, which has historically had great success turning out young African American Voters, has focused the bulk of its efforts in Pennsylvania, and will hold a get-out-the-vote rally at Temple University in Philadelphia just before the April 22 primary.
But even if Obama has the loyalty of most college students, many of them might not be voting in Pennsylvania. The voter registration deadline fell during or just after many schools' spring breaks, and, as a recent Politico article points out, the campaigns may have been too slow to start pushing registration. And unlike Indiana, where Obama has been heavily courting high school students-- holding competitions to "play basketball with Barack"--Pennsylvania voters must be 18 before the primary to participate, not just the general election.
If Obama can't get a high student turnout, he may run into the same pitfall he did in New Hampshire-- non-college, less affluent young people favored Clinton in that state, outweighing his support on campuses and in college towns. Not that Clinton has written off college student's either: Chelsea will be stumping at the Pennsylvania College Dems convention this weekend. Both candidates know this is a race where every vote counts.
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Oh, Ms Currier and her "youth vote" again, huh?
Okay, here's the deal....Obama wins Pennsylvania, I'll admit the "youth vote" is a force to be reckoned with.
He loses Pennsylvania, Ms Currier, Peter Rothberg, and the other "oh, the youth vote is so important" guys have to admit...."maybe not so much".
Deal?
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 12:13pm
Key word here is "if"....though I seriously doubt he'll beat Billary by any means.
Posted by ACook at 04/11/2008 @ 12:17pm
Hillary is "expected" to win Pennsylvania, so if she loses, her bid to persuade the remaining undecided superdelegates ends!
Posted by Metteyya at 04/11/2008 @ 12:24pm
Posted by ACOOK 04/11/2008 @ 12:17pm
Which is why I feel pretty confident in my bet. Note, between you, me, and METTE....three "ifs".
Sorry to say, but She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed WILL win Pennsylvania and Ms Currier's youth vote won't matter, except as another small percent that keeps it tight for Obama, but does NOT guarentee victory in PA.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 12:29pm
Anna Nicole is awesome, Cheney is really cool, Iraq'll be a democracy for a mere 50 billion, Obama's a closet racist -- 4 more years!
At least we have the net while it lasts.
Posted by winyahn at 04/11/2008 @ 12:56pm
From W we're heading backwards to V. The old gal guard wants to see a vagina in the whitehouse before, as Vonnegut says, their peepholes close up.
Posted by winyahn at 04/11/2008 @ 1:45pm
2 weeks ago - 11% clinton lead...
one week ago - 9% clinton lead...
this week - 6% clinton lead...
next week - 2% clinton lead??? (2, 3, 4%?)
abandon not hope all who oppose (that, of course is what she wants).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by WINYAHN 04/11/2008 @ 1:45pm | ignore this person
watch out! sir elton john might call you a mysoginist!
beatty and the jets for prez [tinyurl.com]
but of course some buzillionaire foriegner with a noble title supports her majesty, a bourbon dem!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 2:06pm
but of course some buzillionaire foriegner with a noble title supports her majesty, a bourbon dem!
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 2:06pm
and gets bitchy about it...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 2:13pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 2:13pm
The "sexist if you don't vote for Hilly" line is pretty threadworn...plus it's obvious comeback is "So are you a racist if you don't support Obama"...
to which the FRANK Crowd goes into conniptions, either attacking the attackers for the attack that THEY started....or if stupid, saying Obama "isn't black".
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 2:42pm
Here's a good graphic illustrating Obama's upward move and Billary's decline to sometimes below 40%!
http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
As well as the eminent switcharoo in PA:
http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 2:48pm
Let's stipulate that HRC holds a lead and wins Pennsylvania 53-47. Her real problem is Team HRC is running on financial fumes. Less than half of the $20 million she raised in March is applicable to the rest of the primaries.
That "wall of retirement aged women" may be HRC's strongest voting support, but apparently they are loathe to part with their bingo money.
Posted by Egalitare at 04/11/2008 @ 2:52pm
Posted by MASK 04/11/2008 @ 2:42pm | ignore this person
heehee - you know...in a way this primary reminds me of some SNL alumni movie script where the underdog comes out of nowhere and triumphs over the comically arrogant and furious heavy...cue to sappy music and scene of the heavy blustering and red faced...
"but it was MINE! it was MY TURN DAMMIT! what happened?!?!?!?"
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 2:54pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 04/11/2008 @ 2:48pm
She'll still win PA and keep it going to atleast North Carolina, if not all the way to the Convention.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 2:54pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 2:54pm
No, no, no...not that. It's like those "teen movies", specifically "Better Off Dead" with John Cusack, with the blonde "bully guy" (who stole his girlfriend) and loses "the big race" at the end.
Excellantly parodied by South Park with their "Asspen" episode, BTW.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 2:57pm
Posted by MASK 04/11/2008 @ 2:57pm | ignore this person
lol - that'll work. i missed that one. now that i got cable again i gotta watch more cable i guess...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 3:08pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 3:08pm
Depends on what kind you get....
expanded basic and you get 14 variations on "Law & Order" re-runs....
movie channels and you get 14 variations on an "erotic thriller" starring Monique Parent or 14 re-playings of "Norbit"!
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 3:25pm
Posted by MASK 04/11/2008 @ 2:54pm
No more dirt for Billary to spew that doesn't backfire now and their lead in superdel's is dwindling just as fast as their PA lead. Can't say I agree. As there's -- how many more days to go to even vote?
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 3:26pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 04/11/2008 @ 3:26pm
Obama had polling showing "closing that gap" in Ohio....didn't pay off.
But as I noted to IBBLE, just getting it "close" will be a blow to Her Majesty, as she needs to win PA "big" to have any shot at boosting her popular vote and delegate count.
Even a 5% loss by Obama, which would keep her going, would still keep his numbers ahead of hers.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 3:32pm
Posted by MASK 04/11/2008 @ 3:25pm | ignore this person
yeah...gotta admit i was a tad let down. the snotty brainiac channels i like are slipping. A&E has turned into one of the 3 or so law and order/csi channels, (not the worst...always had a thing for mariska hargitay - daughter of jayne mansfield and some hungarian body builder)...TLC has turned into "total load of crap" reality tv...
was hoping to catch up on some "monk" reruns and stuff like that, but...
at least they still got lots of cgi dinosaurs and the comedy channel...about a 50/50 chance something i want to see is running rather than 10-20% with reg tv (if that).
i HAVE been impressed with how the non fox news channels have turned on the bush. guess they looked at their own polls...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 3:38pm
even the history channel has slipped...where are the cool series like "the barbarians" and that crap?
that was a fav of mine. man - by the time the visogoths were raping, burning and pillaging the holy city...rome sure had it coming!!!!
but now even that one is infested with creeping fluff and trivial crapola...not as bad as "tlc" yet, but slipping. might as well watch PBS....
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 3:44pm
April 6, 2008 - Pennsylvania Democratic Primary Preference
"Barack Obama leads Hillary Clinton 53% to 36% among men (46% of likely Democratic primary voters). Among women, Clinton leads 52% to 39%.
Clinton leads 52% to 36% among white voters (80% of likely Democratic primary voters). Obama leads 89% to 9% among African American voters (16% of likely Democratic primary voters).
Obama leads 52% to 38% among voters age 18 to 49 (52% of likely Democratic primary voters) and Clinton leads 52% to 38% among voters age 50 and older.
27% of all likely Democratic primary voters and 41% of likely Democratic primary voters age 18 to 49 say they would never vote for Hillary Clinton in the primary and 25% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote for Barack Obama in the primary."
http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 3:49pm
Er, that's even-steven, both at 45% in PA.
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 3:52pm
That's the same pollster that had this on Ohio:
________Dates______Clinton___Obama___Undecided
ARG __3/2-3/08_______56_______42________1
http://www.pollster.com/08-OH-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
One could say that they're fairly conservative but accurate with their numbers.
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 4:01pm
HSUB,
Be cool if those numbers play out...but I just don't see it. Her Majesty still has a hard lead in PA, and it's a "Clinton" style state where the unions and women and conservative Dem vote will stick with her.
But, if she loses it...she's done, stick a fork in her rump.
Just wouldn't bet on it.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 4:17pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 4:43pm
Wait a minute...just yesterday you were saying the Dems were doomed and praising McCain.
The old Hillary optimism return, FRANK?
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 4:50pm
Why do you think all of the black voters are voting for Obama? What will they do if Colin Powell is McCain's VP?----Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 4:44pm
BTW, THAT sounds familiar. FG knows how the Negroes think!
"When she gets to the general election, the black voters will come home if they're smart."----Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/15/2008 @ 11:59pm
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 4:52pm
The youth vote will decide? Remember what Seneca wrote, "Adulescentes nimis desiderant." The young desire too ardently.
Posted by Spengler47 at 04/11/2008 @ 4:54pm
Okay, here's the deal....Obama wins Pennsylvania, I'll admit the "youth vote" is a force to be reckoned with.
He loses Pennsylvania, Ms Currier, Peter Rothberg, and the other "oh, the youth vote is so important" guys have to admit...."maybe not so much".
Deal?
Posted by MASK 04/11/2008 @ 12:13pm
you say the same thing every time the "youth" vote deal comes about.
yet obama keeps getting lots of "youthy" voters to show up.
lots.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 7:18pm
might as well watch PBS....
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 3:44pm
hey!
you pay for that! (thank you very much)
just saw two great programs -- one about the incas and the other about the mayas.
man, humans haven't changed much.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 7:23pm
Why do you think all of the black voters are voting for Obama? What will they do if Colin Powell is McCain's VP?
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 4:44pm
obama's WAY blacker than colin....
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 7:24pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 04/11/2008 @ 7:23pm | ignore this person
not too much...
ancient mayan priests were fond of slicing open their genetalia and bleeding onto an alter until they had religious visions from the blood loss...
and with all those hallucenacenic shrooms in the yucatan!!!
oh well, whatever floats yer boat...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 7:32pm
Why do you think all of the black voters are voting for Obama? What will they do if Colin Powell is McCain's VP?
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 4:44pm
But didn't you say that you and repubs would never vote for a black vp or pres when referring to Condi? Or perhaps you meant only black 'females' as opposed to 'white' females.
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/11/2008 @ 7:45pm
MASK, IBBLE - got a much needed guffaw or two from your posts. Hit the spot after a long week.
Posted by winyahn at 04/11/2008 @ 7:47pm
Posted by WINYAHN 04/11/2008 @ 7:47pm | ignore this person
we were being funny? you got a sick sense of humor, WIN!
;)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 7:58pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/11/2008 @ 7:32pm
meerkats more human than previously thought. [pubmedcentral.nih.gov]
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 8:44pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 04/11/2008 @ 7:18pm
FROSTY, wasn't me who started this thread, but Cora Currier.
And she's the one "hinting" that the "youth vote" will win Pennsylvania, not me...and I think she's wrong.
Posted by Mask at 04/11/2008 @ 9:04pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 04/11/2008 @ 8:44pm | ignore this person
i've long held that human females, generally less aggressive than males, underestimaste their competitive natures and fail to limit intragender competition by time and place, thereby making each others lives hell.
men, knowing good and darned well that unrestricted competition results in somebody ending up in the hospital or the morgue, play more games, sports and otherwise, thereby releasing aggression in a limited venue with agreed upon rules and clear victory conditions.
women, less competitive/aggressive by nature, are less apt to limit their competition...thereby semiconciously competing on a constant basis...
ie - the "pit of vipers" syndrome...
meercats, shaved apes...just a difference of degree...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/11/2008 @ 9:04pm
Stupid question: does anyone else think FRANK is sitting at his computer foaming at the mouth?
You really are a fascinating creature FRANK. You would vote against your own principles just for simple spite. You have yet to give a logical reason beyond some strange bias for why Obama is somehow inferior to a 71 year old man who can barely keep his facts straight. The Chicago press has known Barack Obama for eighteen years, and they all admit there hasn't been a politician like him representing Illinois for decades. He is without a doubt a special animal. Yet just because he opposes Hillary he's either incompetent or corrupt, neither of which you've bothered to prove. So register as a Republican and admit that's all you are. Because if you're committed to progressive principles you would get behind the Democrat and hold his or her feet to the fire.
And BTW should in the unlikely event Hillary wins yes I will vote for her. Why? Because inasmuch as I think she is not the best person for the job, at the very least she will be more malleable than Grandpa, or at the very least could handle having her vetos overridden better than him. Plus she won't make disastrous SC decisions (I would hope anyway) and that really is more important than the White House at this point. I'd rather see Scalia on the bench fuming in the minority than smugly re-writing American jurisprudence in his twisted image. The fact that you can't say the same says volumes about you.
Posted by yutsano at 04/11/2008 @ 10:59pm
The problem is all those small town PA young folks are bitter and resentful, clinging to guns and religion and anti-illegal sentiment. Those yokels will never go for the bright future we have planned for them.
Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2008 @ 11:11pm
The point is that they would have to vote against TWO genuine American heroes
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:01pm
martin luther king and henry david thoreau aren't on the ballot.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 11:58pm
What are you, a spoiled chile?
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:45pm
¡¡picante!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/11/2008 @ 11:59pm
don't tell us Obama is blacker than Powell!
Posted by HAPPY2 04/11/2008 @ 11:55pm
oh, happy. i was being sarcastic. the "blackness" argument is one of the most asinine things i've had to put up with in a long time.
DARTH VADER '08!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/12/2008 @ 12:03am
Obama couldn't even carry John McCain's jock strap for God's sake. Do your homework before you talk to me again.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:45pm | ignore this person
Another ludicrous statement, Frank. To be honest with you, Hillary lost my vote (should she manage to get the nomination) when she said pretty much the same thing you just said. The statement shows a tremendous lack of the most basic form of judgment. The difference is, Frank, I won't vote for the right-wing Bush-supporting warmonger with a self-admitted anger management problem for whom you'll be voting should Obama prevail. Nor will I vote for an egomaniacal jerk like Nader. But, Frank, as I've said elsewhere, I've had it with the self-entitled, whether the Bushes, the Clintons, or those of their supporters who feel entitled. An asinine statement such as that above leads me to suggest that maybe it's you who should do a bit of homework.
Posted by jmusolino at 04/12/2008 @ 03:44am
Then watch the polls put her far ahead of McCain.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:50pm | ignore this person
Based on what, Frank? Her negatives remain astronomical and that's pretty unlikely to change. She will lose to McCain in November, and the GOP won't even have to steal this one.
Posted by jmusolino at 04/12/2008 @ 03:46am
"I believe the Children are our Future, teach them well and let them lead the way, with all the beauty they possess inside...".Being a Lil' Sis to the Boomers- I have watched them transform into the establishment they fought against with more Greed and egoism then ever before. My mother even admits they 'spoiled' them. Granted I too was given far more then was needed- but am Now relaizing my debt will be paid through the labor which lies ahead- no retirement, no pensions, no healthcare. I will retire the day I die- so to provide for this mass generation only a decade or so before me. And so will my daughter. We have been sold into indentured slavery for the sins of our older siblings. I accept my responsiblity for letting them 'lead' the way- I should have kept a better eye on them, not been such a gullible younger sibling. But the damage that will have to be carried and hopefully repaired by my Daughters Generation, causes me great regret. All I can do is make plans to continue to work, to sacrific where I can, Inhopes it will ease the pain which will no doubt be felt by our children and be resolved by the time my grandchildren must take the Helm. Perhaps once again they will do better then those of US who Proceded them.
Posted by Purple girl at 04/12/2008 @ 07:14am
Obama will gain delegates there. Hillary will close the gap in the rest of the states and Florida will get her close enough to swing the SD.s to her candidacy. Then watch the polls put her far ahead of McCain.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:50pm | ignore this person
You can't count. There aren't enough delegates at stake for Clinton to meaningfully close the gap (incidentally, Obama is ahead in Oregon as well) and Obama could still be looking at a 150 delegate lead going into the convention. It will be easier to get the numbers to put Obama over the top. In fact, seating the Florida and Michigan delegations may work for him, getting him over the 2,000 mark.
Posted by brunowe at 04/12/2008 @ 10:33am
In any event, as I've said a thousand times, the candidacy of b.O. has let the repubs up off the mat to the point where they may very well win in Nov.
Absolute nonsense. Clinton and Obama both run the same against McCain in the polls. You just can't bring yourself to vote for someone you've referred to as a "mulatto" and "boy".
Posted by brunowe at 04/12/2008 @ 10:36am
Look, the deal with FRANK is obvious.
I don't think he's NECESSARILY a racist or doesn't like Obama because of who his dad was or something like that.
I think it's more childish than that.
He's pissed that "that boy" (yes, he's used that term for a 47 year old man) "stole" Hillary's nomination.
So pissed in fact, that he's willing, after YEARS of telling us how much he opposed the occupation of Iraq and how he dreaded every day his son was over there...to vote for the guy who's the biggest cheerleader for The Surge and says he's up for "100 years in Iraq" and MORE "pre-emptive wars".
Now that's selfish and small to an un-Godly limit. To be so wrapped up in his cult of The Goddess, that to "punish" the person who "took her rightful throne"...he's willing to make the rest of us suffer under a McCain Presidency and the possibility of YEARS of more occupation and possibly more wars.
FG may be in his 60s...but he acts like he's 6.
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 11:44am
FG may be in his 60s...but he acts like he's 6.
Posted by MASK 04/12/2008 @ 11:44am
His simplistic dismissal of me told me volumes. He has yet to refute a point I've made, even when I've called him on a glaring logical point. But you know, that's okay, he's obviously resentful that his franchise player isn't performing to expectations. But I should have guessed that his attachment was emotional when he couldn't give me three reasons to vote for HRC.
Posted by yutsano at 04/12/2008 @ 1:15pm
1. Her health care plan is, to me, more attractive than Obama's.
Mandating insurance coverage without insituting any controls on how they price or distribute the monies given to the insurance companies is a simple tax dollar giveaway to a major business.
2. Her interest in and knowledge of educational issue far exceeds that of Barack.
Evidence please.
3. Immigration.
Their plans, from what I read on their websites, are virtually identical. She just bloviates more.
By all means feel free to continue.
Posted by yutsano at 04/12/2008 @ 1:51pm
Why do you think all of the black voters are voting for Obama? What will they do if Colin Powell is McCain's VP?
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 4:44pm
But didn't you say that you and repubs would never vote for a black vp or pres when referring to Condi? Or perhaps you meant only black 'females' as opposed to 'white' females.
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 04/11/2008 @ 7:45pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 04/11/2008 @ 7:45pm I'll be voting for the top of the ticket. It doesn't matter to me who McCain picks unless it's Karl Rove. Then I'd have to stay home for the first time.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/11/2008 @ 10:02pm
But on 'Condi for Veep' you said:
Condi Rice never has been nor ever will be a candidate for either President or VP. No republican will ever vote for a woman or a black in our lifetime.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/10/2008 @ 9:45pm
So if McCave were to pick Colin Powell or Condi Rice as his VP, you might as well stay home too as no other repub will get themselves to the polls per a black on both tickets!?!?!?
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/12/2008 @ 3:04pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 09:41am | ignore this person
Frank, she's not entitled! Give up the entitlement bullshit - Obama is ahead, is likely to remain ahead, and the utter hubris of the Clinton camp in suggesting that "the boy" should move back and take VP or just get out of the Queen's way is utterly astonishing. And Ho Chi Minh is ineligible, based on 2 constitutional requirements - citizenship and non-death status.
Posted by jmusolino at 04/12/2008 @ 4:14pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 04/12/2008 @ 3:04pm |
Oh-oh, HSUB, you've done it now.
You showed how FRANK has completely contradicted himself....which means, he's now going to accuse you of being on "The Nation" staff!
heheh
(BTW...good job!)
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 4:36pm
Posted by HAPPY2 04/12/2008 @ 4:01pm
So does that mean "McCain=Nixon"?..."secret plan to end the war"?...
and he'll sign an agreement the month he gets inaugurated to get us out....i.e. Nixon and the January '73 Peace Accords?
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 4:39pm
Obama's condescending comments about "bitter" Pensylvanians during a fundraiser for wealthy San Franciscans at $4,000 a plate will not help him one bit. Hillary '08!
Posted by nursevic at 04/12/2008 @ 5:06pm
Posted by NURSEVIC 04/12/2008 @ 5:06pm
Yes, that's MUCH worse than Bill resurrecting the whole Bosnia flap...and "fudging" on that as well.
Say, why DIDN'T Her Majesty ever apologize....or ever apologize for ANYTHING?!??!?!?
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 5:15pm
I guess Obamaniacs are grabbing at straws at this point. La reina is the most qualified candidate, no apologies needed.
Posted by nursevic at 04/12/2008 @ 5:21pm
I guess Obamaniacs are grabbing at straws at this point. La reina is the most qualified candidate, no apologies needed.
Posted by NURSEVIC 04/12/2008 @ 5:21pm
Are you STILL singing, "Don't Cry For Me Argentina"? Maybe you can answer me a question: How does a candidate with a nealy 50% negative perception in the American public win an election?
Posted by yutsano at 04/12/2008 @ 5:48pm
Ho Chi Mihn was a Communist.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 6:03pm
And the democratically elected leader of VietNam, neither of which is relevant.
Posted by yutsano at 04/12/2008 @ 6:05pm
in my 60's? Now that's funny. You're only a couple of decades off.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 5:57pm
congratulations, octogenarian!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/12/2008 @ 6:58pm
Most days I feel like I'm holding class in politics, history, world affairs or any combination of the three.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 6:46pm
blessed be thy knowledge.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/12/2008 @ 6:59pm
As for the War, none of the three will get the troops home anytime soon.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 5:56pm
of course not. however, a quintillion dollar deficit will make it more than necessary.
fire up the presses!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/12/2008 @ 7:14pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 5:56pm
You've also said YOU are planning on voting for McCain if Her Majesty doesn't get the nomination. THAT is my point.
As for your age, if you are in your 80s....maybe it IS racism. My ol' granddad was still using the N-word for African-Americans well into the 1990s, sort of "engrained" in that generation.
hmmm?
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 7:38pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 8:03pm
Good...hate to think a man reachs his 80s and is still so child-like.
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 9:56pm
BTW, with "stop-loss"....under "President McCain"....
your son may have to go back!
That'll show us "Obama cultists", won't it?
Posted by Mask at 04/12/2008 @ 9:57pm
I said it's Obama's candidacy that's getting you McCain. It isn't anything Hillary has done. As for the War, none of the three will get the troops home anytime soon. Stop being so damn gullible and listen to their words.
Both statements are complete nonsense. When Clinton makes statements like her and McCain having a lifetime of experience and Obama having a speech he made in 2002 (overlooking that being First Lady at the state and federal level and being a corporate lawyer hardly count for the job she's running for), then she is looking to sabotage Obama's chances against McCain. Add to that the petulant position of you and other Clinton supporters, then it is clearly something she's doing.
As for the war, both Obama and Clinton will draw down troops, even is they won't bring home as many as they like. Your obvious misrepresentation of that is a clear attempt to rationalize your hypocrisy on this issue. You were against the war until your son stopped being at risk, and now you have no problem with that. You try to conceal that by asserting that there is no difference in their positions on that issue.
It can be very challangeing. Most days I feel like I'm holding class in politics, history, world affairs or any combination of the three.
The only problem is that the only thing you are obviously qualified to teach of the writing of bad fiction.
Tampering republicans and independents as well as 90% of blacks and a chic youth vote have pushed him ahead.
You've provided no proof of Republican tampering and his getting support from independents is a good thing. Again, you reveal your patronizing view of the generation of new voters by assuming that this is purely a fashion.
They never been a trustworthy voting bloc for anybody. After the repub attack machine decimates the neophyte, the youth will scatter with their tails between their legs. Mccain will own white men, all the republicans and about 90% of the hispanic/latino vote which will give him all of the southwest including Ca.
90% of the Latino vote? This from a person who's caved on his prior immigration issue? Likewise, if Obama can stand up to the Clinton attack machine, he can deal with the McCain one. The idea that the Republicans will take California is about as delusional as your idea that Mask works for The Nation.
Hillary on the other hand will probably get back half of the black vote who will feel guilty for abandoning her,
Why would they feel guilty for abandoning her? They owed her nothing to begin with.
Posted by brunowe at 04/12/2008 @ 10:10pm
Well Frank, if you're in your 40s than I need to correct my misapprehension that you had served in Vietnam. I don't recall if you actually said you had, but if you're my age, you certainly couldn't have.
Posted by brunowe at 04/12/2008 @ 10:11pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS Most days I feel like I'm holding class in politics, history, world affairs or any combination of the three.
Wow.
Posted by winyahn at 04/12/2008 @ 11:22pm
I've told you before not to mention my son.
Too effing bad.
As for drawing down troops, I'm all for that so long as it doesn't put those remaining there in any further danger.
A statement that would carry more credibility if you weren't in favor of McCain ahead of Obama.
You've got so much to learn. An awful lot of people read these sites you know. Aren't you the least bit embarrassed?
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/12/2008 @ 11:07pm | ignore this person
Only embarrassed for you.
Posted by brunowe at 04/13/2008 @ 03:49am
Young Americans of all colors and beliefs America needs you now:
4/13/08
Dear Young Americans:
It occurs to me that your generation/s, of all colors and beliefs, has been swept away by the wave that is Barack. Please don't be mesmerized into what could turn out to be the wrong decision on your part, by one who is being touted in the media as a "rock star". Please do not repeat my generations mistakes (the hippie/boomer generation), by getting swept away "in a movement". The challenges we face in America and the world are far too great for us to drown the only real chance America may have in a "tidal wave of hope". He will have his day when he is more seasoned. Right now, in these troubled times, we unfortunately need a long standing and more politically savvy leader. Please think about what you are doing before you cast your vote. Barack will have his time soon enough and he will have his time. He is young and strong and can wait until the next election cycle. You really don't want him to fail, and neither do I. Unfortunately the stakes are too high and I am afraid he will. The problems we face are too big to do on the job training. We need a tested change agent who has lived through the consequences of not "being right form day one". That candidate is Hillary. Besides, we need at least 16 years of Democratic leadership to meet the challenges of today and the years to come. Barack needs time to mature and gain experience. What if his campaign of "hope" should happen to fail? Then what do we do? I'm very afraid that our world, by our own making, not yours, is in too bad of a position for a junior senator to clean up. Besides we need to clean up our own mess, instead of passing them onto your generations. Please think about the decision you are making. This may be the most serious decision of your life and will affect all of us for generations to come. Wait to vote for Barack. Wait until he can really succeed and shine. Thank you to the youth of America, our future. Please gather your friends and families to vote for Hillary. Hillary believes in all of "US", including those of us in small towns. Obama is an elitist jerk. How can Americans even give him a glance? Go Hillary and the rest of "US" left to vote, "we can do this together". I feel the small towns and big towns too, rising to the support of the American President who represents us all. Now, that has finally become obvious to us all- Obama "we in small towns are bitter"!!! Get a life and go back to your rookie senate position & leave America to Hillary. She is being outspent by at least three to one. Remember, the money for Obama's campaign didn't all come from small donors as he tries to make us think. Instead, at least half of his 230 million plus dollars has come from rich multimillionaires and 27,000 plus maximum amount $2300.00 donors. Ergo, his elistist comments and beliefs stated in San Francisco are shining through. Now these "bitter" comments bring [W]right up again too, and correctly so, I think! Why does everything Obama wrongly says that clearly shows how he really stands gets spun around as we, the electorate, are taking it out of context or he's sorry but...? Hillary has the only "shot" now for Democrats in November. She really identifies with and cares about what happens to the ones of "US" left who are barely surviving here in the middle and lower class. She, of course, is rich but, she can still identify with we the "working class Americans. Obama, clearly cannot. Hillary will win in November against McCain or more of the same McBushIII. Obama cannot win, particularly now. Sure looks like to me that Obama is showing himself for the far left latte drinker that he has been since the start. Remember, divide and conquer in Europe by taking advantage of the youth and minority races? Starting to rack them up and the republicans will have a field day in November i.e. monsterGate, NAFTAGATE, his real plans for Irag withdrawal have now been revealed, small town slam and oh yeah, [W]right!!!! Obama's latest truly revealing small town slam calling "US" bitter, etc., finally shows him for the elitist rat that he has been from the start and has managed to hide thus far. Wake up America! He doesn't care a thing about promoting anybody but himself. We need Hillary Clinton. We can still save the nominating process and the Democratic Party, if we do the right thing in the primaries left to come. Let's not let the rest of America down. Decisive wins for Hillary in all remaining primaries will put Obama back in his rightful place- a rookie senator. We can still do this and I know the rest of "US" is counting on us. One last thing, where are the ranting raves by the MSM on this issue and why aren't they running this over and over and over again? He will lose the nomination because he is finally identified as the inferior candidate. We have to beat McCain in the fall Americans. Vote Hillary for a victory for the Democrats in November, otherwise we're doomed. PA, you can do it, bring her on to the rest of "US" and save the Presidency for the Democrats. Vote Hillary! Thank you from KY. America needs your help!!!
Posted by moblou at 04/13/2008 @ 3:00pm
RE: "Young Voters ..."
In Obama you have the snartest guy not in the room, but in the entire American politics. Politics! You know what I mean. Abram Lincohn? Nope. Poor word choice, pastor fault, etc, .. Where do we come from here?
---------------
Obama acknowledges poor word choice By Jim Snyder 04/12/08 04:31 PM [ET]
Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) sought to keep alive the controversy surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's (Ill.) comments at a San Francisco fundraiser as her rival for the Democratic nomination acknowledged that his words were poorly chosen.
Posted by HelenDAO at 04/14/2008 @ 03:50am
I hope the kids impact this race. We, old geezers, are too scared to do anything unexpected and intelligent. Look at how easy it was to distort and defeat Mrs. and Mr. Edwards. I'm seventy years old and change is scary, and yes I'm, "bitter", that American politicians and American corporation traded our sweat equity to cheep labor countries for gluttony and greed. I include in that Mr. Clinton's eight years.
Posted by julien38 at 04/14/2008 @ 10:20am
If they are informed about current events, they will see Obama has been caught in yet another untruth. Chicago Tribune report today indicates that it came out in Court yesterday, during the Rezko trial, that the OBAMA'ss WERE at a party at Rezko's house (previously denied by Obama) while the English-Iraqi bad actor under Sadam Hussein was present.
Are College students voting on fact or personality???? IT IS THEIR FUTURE
Posted by TypicalFem at 04/15/2008 @ 2:01pm
Young Americans of all races, genders, and beliefs the America needs you and so does Hillary!
4/13/08 Dear Young Americans: It occurs to me that your generation/s, of all colors and beliefs, has been swept away by the wave that is Barack. Please don't be mesmerized into what could turn out to be the wrong decision on your part, by one who is being touted in the media as a "rock star". Please do not repeat my generations mistakes (the hippie/boomer generation), by getting swept away "in a movement". The challenges we face in America and the world are far too great for us to drown the only real chance America may have in a "tidal wave of hope". He will have his day when he is more seasoned. Right now, in these troubled times, we unfortunately need a long standing and more politically savvy leader. Please think about what you are doing before you cast your vote. Barack will have his time soon enough and he will have his time. He is young and strong and can wait until the next election cycle. You really don't want him to fail, and neither do I. Unfortunately the stakes are too high and I am afraid he will. The problems we face are too big to do on the job training. We need a tested change agent who has lived through the consequences of not "being right form day one". That candidate is Hillary. Besides, we need at least 16 years of Democratic leadership to meet the challenges of today and the years to come. Barack needs time to mature and gain experience. What if his campaign of "hope" should happen to fail? Then what do we do? I'm very afraid that our world, by our own making, not yours, is in too bad of a position for a junior senator to clean up. Besides we need to clean up our own mess, instead of passing them onto your generations. Please think about the decision you are making. This may be the most serious decision of your life and will affect all of us for generations to come. Wait to vote for Barack. Wait until he can really succeed and shine. Thank you to the youth of America, our future. Please gather your friends and families to vote for Hillary. Hillary believes in all of "US", including those of us in small towns. Obama is an elitist jerk. How can Americans even give him a glance? Go Hillary and the rest of "US" left to vote, "we can do this together". I feel the small towns and big towns too, rising to the support of the American President who represents us all. Now, that has finally become obvious to us all- Obama "we in small towns are bitter"!!! Get a life and go back to your rookie senate position & leave America to Hillary. She is being outspent by at least three to one. Remember, the money for Obama's campaign didn't all come from small donors as he tries to make us think. Instead, at least half of his 230 million plus dollars has come from rich multimillionaires and 27,000 plus maximum amount $2300.00 donors. Ergo, his elistist comments and beliefs stated in San Francisco are shining through. Now these "bitter" comments bring [W]right up again too, and correctly so, I think! Why does everything Obama wrongly says that clearly shows how he really stands gets spun around as we, the electorate, are taking it out of context or he's sorry but...? Hillary has the only "shot" now for Democrats in November. She really identifies with and cares about what happens to the ones of "US" left who are barely surviving here in the middle and lower class. She, of course, is rich but, she can still identify with we the "working class Americans. Obama, clearly cannot. Hillary will win in November against McCain or more of the same McBushIII. Obama cannot win, particularly now. Sure looks like to me that Obama is showing himself for the far left latte drinker that he has been since the start. Remember, divide and conquer in Europe by taking advantage of the youth and minority races? Starting to rack them up and the republicans will have a field day in November i.e. monsterGate, NAFTAGATE, his real plans for Irag withdrawal have now been revealed, small town slam and oh yeah, [W]right!!!! Obama's latest truly revealing small town slam calling "US" bitter, etc., finally shows him for the elitist rat that he has been from the start and has managed to hide thus far. Wake up America! He doesn't care a thing about promoting anybody but himself. We need Hillary Clinton. We can still save the nominating process and the Democratic Party, if we do the right thing in the primaries left to come. Let's not let the rest of America down. Decisive wins for Hillary in all remaining primaries will put Obama back in his rightful place- a rookie senator. We can still do this and I know the rest of "US" is counting on us. One last thing, where are the ranting raves by the MSM on this issue and why aren't they running this over and over and over again? He will lose the nomination because he is finally identified as the inferior candidate. We have to beat McCain in the fall Americans. Vote Hillary for a victory for the Democrats in November, otherwise we're doomed. PA, you can do it, bring her on to the rest of "US" and save the Presidency for the Democrats. Vote Hillary! Thank you from KY. America needs your help!!!
Posted by moblou at 04/15/2008 @ 2:07pm
This article is right on target. I'm organizing out here near the shattered mill town of Aliquippa in Beaver County, Western PA. Registration is closed for the primary, but soon as it opens again, we need to register young people in droves. That's my experience from talking with them, and watching them, at the Obama rallies here.
Both Hillary and Barack do about the same against McCain, but for different reasons. If this election is like any normal election, Hillary wins the primary and McCain the general. If it's not a normal election, with lots of voters under forty, Barack wins PA and has at least as good a shot at the White House as Hillary vs McCain.
The unpredictable wild card is white male identity politics, and the youth here are not nearly as caught up in it as their elders. I've talked to bitter older white workers who claim their first choice was Edwards, but now are leaning to McCain, despite their hatred of the war and his support for it. Not to hard to figure it out. The youth are breaking the other way, and they are the best hope.
Finally, I'm not happy with Obama's positions on the war. But I think it matters if you're keeping a President's feet to the fire, if it's the one who pledges to end the war in 2009 at every rally, and brings the working-class crowds to their feet when he does, as opposed to a president proposing 100 years of occupation and wider war. Really, it's a no brainer if your aim is to end this war sooner rather than later.
Just set your cynicism aside, and help get the new generation registered, organized, fired up, and to the polls. No matter who wins the White House, we'll need to be connected win them and mobilize with them to end this war, and sideline sitters aren't very helpful. --Carl Davidson, http://progressivesforobama.blogspot.com
Posted by CarlD717 at 04/15/2008 @ 4:34pm
We may have arrived at a point in time that may gives us a generational shift. Given a choice between a pathological liar, a confused old war hero that thinks it is patriotic to wear an American flag lapel pin made in China and send kids to die for a lie and an extremely intelligent man, the kids seem to be going for intelligent. I'm ready to try something new.
Posted by julien38 at 04/17/2008 @ 10:03pm