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RedditThis post was researched and co-written by Sarah Jaffe, a blogger, freelance journalist and Nation intern.
The healthcare battle is in full swing with the past month's news being dominated by shouting scenes of corporate-sponsored "movements" confronting healthcare reform supporters at town hall meetings coast to coast.
At the same time, the Obama administration has wavered on its commitment to the "public option" that was a central campaign promise and which is the backbone of effective national healthcare in every single one of what used to be called the advanced industrialized countries. (And don't get fooled by this co-op nonsense -- Lindsey Beyerstein's blog detailed why this new "compromise" is a doomed idea.)
As The Nation's Chris Hayes recently argued on The Rachel Maddow Show, this summer's ferocious rightwing organizing needs to be countered with more organizing. We here at Act Now! have put together some ways to do just that.
The single best thing you can do is to (politely) communicate with your elected representatives about healthcare. Tell them your personal stories. Make them understand why you support reform and why you think the stakes are so high. They need to hear from their constituents, and the people who make the effort to talk to them in person will be heard most loudly.
A recent poll showed that opponents of reform are more likely than supporters to protest, and this dynamic could kill critical reforms that are supported by a majority of Americans, and would save many lives. Is your representative having a town hall? Go to it. Bring friends. Organizing for America, the organizing arm of the Democratic National Committee, has a tool that allows you to find your congressperson's local office, or you can find representatives here and senators here. Especially important are members of the Blue Dog caucus in the House. Is your Rep a Blue Dog? Find out here.
Can't make it in person? Call and/or write your Congressional rep tool--and make it personal. Send us your stories as well--we'll post some of them on the site. Have you had a bad experience with your healthcare coverage? Do you have a Blue Dog representative or a "centrist" Senator who's waffling on supporting real reform? What do you know about them? Have you been to a healthcare event? Tell us about it.
One of the biggest problems that conservatives claim to have with providing real healthcare to all Americans is that it would be too expensive. With striking disingenuousness, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said of the national debt, "It's as if every single American gets up in the morning, walks over to the window, and tosses two dollars out into the wind, every day for the next 10 years." What McConnell failed to mention is why the deficit is so high -- eight years of a failed Republican Administration that was handed a budget surplus at its inception.
Moreover, that two dollars a day could be well-spent as Nation reader Monchel Pridget's "$2 a day for universal healthcare idea underlines. She suggested a $2-a-day drive for donations to healthcare organizing, and we're running with it.
If you can afford $2 a day for universal healthcare, join The Nation in donating to the organizing efforts on the ground. You can make a recurring donation until the bill passes, or a one-time donation of whatever you can afford. Health Care for America Now is working around the country to push for real healthcare reform, like the House bill that contains a strong public option and subsidies for people on the lower-end of the income ladder.
It's also useful to add your name to the Progressive Democrats of America's "Healthcare, Not Warfare" petition; to write your newspaper editor and call for national healthcare; to contact the AMA at (800) 621-8335 and ask it to stop supporting the private for-profit health insurance companies; to join one of the many Facebook groups in support of a public option, particularly the one trying to organize a march on Washington for a public option, and to donate to HCAN, which will pay for lawn signs and other organizing resources where it counts: in the districts of Blue Dog members and so-called "centrist" Senators whose support is crucial to passing a strong healthcare bill.
Finally, visit the sites of progressive organizations who are working on healthcare. Democracy for America's Public Option Action Pledge, Americans United for Change's ad and petition to CNN, Organizing for America's pledge to support Obama's healthcare plan, FireDogLake's Public Plan Whip Tool and Brave New Films' "Sick for Profit" all have ways you can take action for reform. Physicians for a National Health Program and the California Nurses Association are two groups of healthcare professionals pushing for single-payer healthcare.
Congress is back from recess on September 8, and we want the members to come back knowing the demand for universal healthcare is immediate and impossible to ignore.
As our colleague Hayes well wrote in a related blog post:
If you want health care, then do something about it. We are now in the middle of a fight. Fights are good. Democracy is fundamentally about the non-violent resolution of conflict, and we've got conflict. There is a small but very mobilized constituency of people and interests that want to kill health care reform. They have the advantage of being on the attack, or tearing down and criticizing and expressing their outrage. The job of advocates of reform is trickier, but unless there is a mobilization and concerted organized attempt to push elected representatives in a progressive direction they will succumb to the braying and bullying of tea-baggers. Find out if your congressman is having a town hall, and go. Find others to go with you. Let them know you will punish them if they don't support real reform. Call their offices. Show up at their offices.It's on.
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Peter Rothberg
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This should be reason enough to never let govt near any health care problem or issue. We should fix the current system, not make another Post Office run by TSA, managed by namless buerocrats who have never run anything, and designed by politicians who will never let their families near it or use it themselves.
even Obama uses the PO as an example of a pathetic failure.
The SS and Medicare programs will be out of money soon.
We don't have enought tax payers. This should be killed off before whats let of America gets killed of by Liberal well intentioned but self destruction policies.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 2:50pm
<The single best thing you can do is to (politely) communicate with your elected representatives about healthcare>
I think this is a great idea. I'm going to write to Senators Boxer and Feinstein and tell them that I have been able to successfully live a quality life for 60 years without paying health insurance companies or the government for healthcare.
And I can tell them that I'm not wealthy, never have been and never spend a moments time thinking about the cost of healthcare for myself.
I can even make myself available to them and to Congress to teach them what they have obviously forgotten about how to live a quality life without depending on doctors, insurance, or the govt for your health. I'll even do it at no charge as a service to my country.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 2:51pm
JO -- It'll be innocent people who are killed off if we don't get universal healthcare.
ANTI -- Glad you've been so lucky but good fortune does not make for a good public policy, and for most of us doctors are actually necessary. Many others haven't been as fortunate as you -- including a great-uncle of mine who died b/c of lack of access to healthcare. It's people like that we're fighting for. Not people like you.
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 08/24/2009 @ 3:08pm
antisocialist-I have lived long without paying for health insurance or paying the government for health care,too.I have never spent a moment thinking about the cost of my health care,either because,like you,I am a veteran and get it for free.It does not matter that you have not been in awhile because you know you have the veterans hospitals if you ever need one..Many who have lived the type of holistic no doctors healthy religious life that say you have lived get cancer and die young.Have heart attacks and die,too.Some of these things are genetic and rather than pat yourself on the back because you have been healthy you may wish to consider others.If you ever cut your hand off you will not sew it back on and you will die if a doctor does not stitch you up.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 3:25pm
Anti-government types are always going on about bureacrats, but they conveniently forget that bureaucrats are what the private insurance industry specializes in. Medicare has about a 3% administrative cost, while private insurance plans take up to 33% of your health care dollar, part of which, amazingly, goes to pay people to deny health care.
Posted by jimus888 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:37pm
Why has Obama let the public option flounder & drift for so long?
Where is his leadership?
What political margin does he perceive in this lack of direction?
So many Qs, so few As.
Posted by sloper at 08/24/2009 @ 3:39pm
This should be reason enough to never let govt near any health care problem or issue.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 2:50pm
I find it so disingenuous that all you righties are all of a sudden concerned about the debt, I heard barely a peep from you about it when it doubled under Bush. Yet it is all you can seem to think about now. Somehow you all believed we could be the first nation in the history of the world to go to war while lowering taxes and not have any repercussions.
The PO is a pathetic failure? Really? I still get mail and mail I send still arrives. It has worked pretty damn well for over 230 years! Is it having some issues, sure. But pathetic failure? Hardly.
Posted by Extraneous at 08/24/2009 @ 3:42pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 3:25pm
the difference is that I'm not concerned about dying. I look forward to that time when it comes.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 3:45pm
I urge everyone to watch this interview:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html
Posted by jimus888 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:50pm
I went and signed 2 of the petitions right away, and I'll probably send some funds to firedoglake too. Not a whole lot but something, if everybody thought that way we could make quite a contribution.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:58pm
jimus888, I saw that on pbs, very good too, Moyers always is.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:59pm
I urge everyone to watch this interview:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html
Posted by jimus888 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:50pm
Interesting Thanks!
Posted by Extraneous at 08/24/2009 @ 4:08pm
Peter,
Bill Press and others have been calling for a March on Washington in support of either a Public Option or Single Payer Healthcare. They have indicated that they do not have the power to initiate such a protest on their own, but that the Unions do.
If the AFL-CIO was to call members and union sympathetic people in support of labor for this purpose, it could be done.
There is already an effort towards this goal being initiated by "Mad as Hell Doctors". They will be starting a 22 city whistle stop caravan that will begin on September 8th in Portland, OR and arrive in Washington D.C. on 9/30-10/01.
If there was cooperation between the Unions and "Mad as Hell Doctors" we might be able to muster up enough people to make the difference.
This effort needs the support of everyone, including the Nation.
There is nothing as convincing as a million people showing up on the mall in D.C. to persuade the administration that we mean business.
All it takes is the spark.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 4:09pm
Defining the question as one of "insurance" is rather misleading. If you have an expensive car or house you should be able to pay for an expensive insurance policy. But anybody can have an extremely expensive medical condition. It really is a social welfare question. So why doesn't the administration use its party's strong position in the legislature to simply use Medicaid to cover everybody who is uninsured? The uninsured get emergency room or charity or reduced cost care (or pay out of pocket) anyway; why not just formalize it with Medicaid?
Posted by Mistral at 08/24/2009 @ 4:40pm
Posted by Mistral at 08/24/2009 @ 4:40pm
Medicaid is generally a joint federal and state program for low income individuals and has strict eligibility requirements.
It would be better just to open up Medicare to everyone who wants to join. There would be no need for Medicaid if Medicare was expanded.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 4:57pm
Hi Chaoszen, I wanted to help you out on the other thread, but I was stumped, sometimes that happens to me, yes it does, keep up the good fight, we needs ya.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/24/2009 @ 5:22pm
Anti-government types are always going on about bureacrats, but they conveniently forget that bureaucrats are what the private insurance industry specializes in. Medicare has about a 3% administrative cost, while private insurance plans take up to 33% of your health care dollar, part of which, amazingly, goes to pay people to deny health care.
Posted by jimus888 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Do they have a $70,000,000,000. "blackhole of debt like Medicare and Medicade programs? Do they wait until there is massive FRAUD of billions of those taxpayer dollars perpetrated that are unreclaimable before they act against it?
The answer to both questions is NO they fight healthcare fraud upfront which explains a big part of Insurance company overhead!
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 5:25pm
The Obamanation and the Demoncrats get funnier every day they are in control, you almost can't wait for him to come out with more LIEING rhetoric;
Impromptu Obamanomics is getting scarier by the day. For all the president's touted intelligence, his un-teleprompted comments reveal a basic misunderstanding of capitalist principles.
"For example, asked at the Portsmouth town hall how private insurance companies can compete with the government, the president said the following:
"‘If the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self-sustaining -- meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it …'
"Self-sustaining? The public option? What has Obama been doing during those daily 40-minute economic briefings …
"Government programs aren't self-sustaining by definition. They're subsidized by the taxpayer. If they were self-financed, we'd be off the hook …
"The proliferation of Obama's gaffes and non sequiturs on health care has exceeded the allowable limit. He has failed repeatedly to explain how the government will provide more (health care) for less (money) … And he has failed to explain why a Medicare-like model is desirable when Medicare itself is going broke.
"The public is left with one of two unsettling conclusions: Either the president doesn't understand the health-insurance reform plans working their way through Congress, or he understands both the plans and the implications and is being untruthful about the impact."
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 5:33pm
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 5:33pm |
Damn Rio, you are so "out there", that you are most likely "in there" with the delusional psycho crowd.
I never cease to be amazed. Especially when you attempt to sell your snake oil in this forum...
You would be better served to post on Blogs on websites like Drudge, Laura Ingraham, Rush, Michael Savage, Ann Colter, Michelle Malkin, Michael Reagan, Bauer & Rose, Hannity, Mike Church, Bill O' Reilly, Brian and the Judge or a nefarious host of other talking head Demons who deign to poison the airwaves of this once great country.
I monitor all of them daily, much to my chagrin and a very real danger to my health.
But hell, someone has to do it..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 5:58pm
All the facts, normally the last things new con repubs ever look at, but the first to argue against...
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/24/2009 @ 6:06pm
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 5:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person
So who is LIEING about tennents of the the proposed healthcare bill?
FactCheck.org: House Bill Authorizes Coverage of "All Abortions" Under Obamacare President Obama said on Saturday:
"Some are also saying that coverage for abortions would be mandated under reform. Also false. When it comes to the current ban on using tax dollars for abortions, nothing will change under reform."
FactCheck.org reported on Friday:
"As for the House bill as it stands now, it's a matter of fact that it would allow both a "public plan" and newly subsidized private plans to cover all abortions."
The House bill would mandate the establishment of at least one insurance plan that covers elective abortions in every regional health-care "exchange" for federally-subsidized plans. Who's "bearing false witness" about the health-care bill again
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 6:07pm
FactCheck.org: House Bill Authorizes Coverage of "All Abortions" Under Obamacare President Obama said Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 6:07pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You are trying my patience. I really don't know why I even respond to this kind of B.S.
I suppose it is because I fear that someone might read these lies and become convinced.
Rio, have you ever heard of the "Hyde Amendment"? It was passed in 1976. And it's chief sponsor was a Republican! Congressman Henry Hyde of Illinois.
It specifically denies the use of Federal Funds to pay for Abortions.
There is no provision in any of the current Health Care proposals to provide Federal Funds or any funds for Abortions.
If your lying ass was standing next to me at this moment, I would wash your polluted mouth out with biodegradable soap.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:25pm
JO -- It'll be innocent people who are killed off if we don't get universal healthcare.
No Peter, fix the current bugs but don't replace the system with the govt.
Start with the lawyers and malpractice and eliminate illegals from the system...
Name one program the govt runs well?
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 6:25pm
I monitor all of them daily, much to my chagrin and a very real danger to my health.
But hell, someone has to do it..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 5:58pm
Hmm, Drudge Report DOESN'T have a blog. Hannity has a forum but doesn't post threads on it.
O'Reilly is a moderate by his terminology and someone whom I consider to be left of center on a number of issues.
<Bauer & Rose, Mike Church, Brian and the Judge>
I have no idea who those people are. The fact that you do is a little scary.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 6:28pm
Will somone please help me out? I can't continue to fight these Zombies off on my own.
I get weary of defending the Alamo all by my lonesome..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:29pm
So many Qs, so few As.
Posted by sloper at 08/24/2009 @ 3:39pm
I actually have a theory on that. While it's obvious Obama has made some missteps, like underestimating the vitriol aimed at him by the far right Racist Nutjob Conservatives (RNC), I also think he has a bit of a plan.
I think just last year he called August the "silly season" in Washington. I think, to a certain extent, he is allowing his foes to show all their cards first. The crazies have all come out already; the guns nuts showed up with their guns at a Presidential town hall, the crazies with their swastikas and Hitler parodies have shown up, even the "he's a racist who hates white people" have shown up and they've all gotten their 15 minutes. There's really nothing more to throw at him. The RNC has basi...excuse me, the Republicans in the House and Senate...have basically said that they are going to continue to be the Party of No and won't vote for anything.
Now that he knows that, I believe his strategy will change come September; perhaps the Dems will go it alone, perhaps a few more Repubs (Snowe, etc.) might come over to the Dem side, knowing full well that healthcare reform must pass and she'll just have to go against her leadership again.
Or maybe I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt because he beat the Clinton machine and the Republican racist smear machine...within a few months of each other.
I dunno. I guess I still have hope that he's smarter than your average Congress critter.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/24/2009 @ 6:34pm
I have no idea who those people are. The fact that you do is a little scary.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 6:28pm
If you find any idea that I have a "little scary", then I feel that my time is well spent.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:36pm
Hmm, Drudge Report DOESN'T have a blog. Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 6:28pm |
Type in Drudge Blog on Google. It takes you right there.
"The Great American Blog" is a Fox (non) News Blog. Hosted by "Hannity" (The Manatee) This country's most prolific liar.
Damn Anti, you almost rival Hannity in your ignorance.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:51pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 6:28pm
It must be very disconcerting to be wrong about everything. 99.9% of the time.
I don't feel sorry for you, although I feel Empathy. You represent everthing I despise. I simply don't understand how you can exist in your own head without drowning in a sea of contradiction.
As a Buddhist, I am required to feel compassion. I try. I really do.
But at times I fail. And I really must Thank You. You give me an opportunity to test my compassion.
But I am sorely tested.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 7:02pm
Posted by Denise29 at 08/24/2009 @ 3:58pm
FDL is a real good start in supporting the activism necessary to bring about reform.
I didn't know anyone was paying attention.
Good on Ya for your support.
Wow.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 7:17pm
the only way to effectively lower healthcare costs is universal healthcare. that's a fact that conservatives (who claim to understand economics better than liberals) refuse to grasp. and it has polluted the entire "debate" since it began 40 years ago.
Posted by darladoon at 08/24/2009 @ 7:23pm
If you find any idea that I have a "little scary", then I feel that my time is well spent.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:36pm
I didn't say your idea was scary, it's that you know who some of those people are and I've never heard of them.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 7:25pm
I am surprised that more conservatives are not on board with a public option or even with single payer. The benefit it would have for our industries and businesses would be immense. If our major businesses, currently with massive expenses going toward healthcare, for current employees and retirees. If those costs were removed our businesses they would become much more competitive worldwide, as the majority of industrial world does have those expenses covered by the state. Much depends on how the program is financed, but there is no way universal healthcare would not benefit businesses of all sizes.
Yet there is so much fear about it. Fear of change, fear of the government. It will be a loss for all Americans if we don't get real healthcare reform from this opportunity. The influence of small powerful lobbies to scare Americans away from beneficial change is dissapointing. The righties speak of their fear of the governement whenever a democrat is in office. I fear the corporations, the ones who truly have the power over our governement and our lives.
Posted by Extraneous at 08/24/2009 @ 7:35pm
the only way to effectively lower healthcare costs is universal healthcare. that's a fact that conservatives (who claim to understand economics better than liberals) refuse to grasp. and it has polluted the entire "debate" since it began 40 years ago.
Posted by darladoon at 08/24/2009 @ 7:23pm
Actually the U.S. debate on Universal Healthcare began in the early 1900's. It was then known as "Sick Insurance". Theodore Roosevelt supported government health insurance because he believed that no country could be strong when people were sick and poor.
Social Healthcare in Europe began as early as 1883 in countries like Germany, Austria, Hungary, Norway, Britain, Russia and the Netherlands. Sweden, Denmark, France and Switzerland soon followed.
"Social Healthcare" has been around for a long time. And many Europeon countries have already laid the groundwork through trial and error as to what works and what does not.
These countries realized early on the importance of Public Healthcare.
But when it comes to this country it seems like this is an entirely new idea.
That is just propaganda. These ideas have been around for well over 100 years.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 8:16pm
Yet there is so much fear about it. Fear of change, fear of the government.
Posted by Extraneous at 08/24/2009 @ 7:35pm | ignore this person | warn this person
yep, and fear by the health insurance companies of losing their easy money ("blood money," in many cases, actually.
Posted by jarshadow at 08/24/2009 @ 8:37pm
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5603
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5621
You ignorant liberals have no grasp of history or reality. Read the above two articles and maybe you'll understand why.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/24/2009 @ 9:00pm
You ignorant liberals have no grasp of history or reality. Read the above two articles and maybe you'll understand why.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/24/2009 @ 9:00pm
Excuse me for being a bit blunt.
But. Fuck You! and your "articles".
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 9:33pm
First line Header on libertyfortheoppressed "articles"
Why Are We Moving Toward Socialized Medicine? by Yaron Brook (July 29, 2009)
It only gets worse from there...
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 9:41pm
antisocialist-You are better than Jesus.Even Jesus got a bit concerned when facing suffering and death and wanted to not suffer and die.He was concerned and was not looking forward to it.So,if your hand got cut off you would stand there and watch it bleed and then die?Have you faced that?Obviously not.It is easy to talk unconcerned about death,but quite different when faced with the actual event.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 9:45pm
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/24/2009 @ 9:00pm
Did you even in your wildest imagination dare to hope that those posts would even begin to hold water here?
If so, I have a lady in Alaska I would like to sell you who claims that she can see a shirtless Vladimir Putin rear his ugly head.
Were not yet sure exactly which "head" she was referring to.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 9:48pm
libertyfor-If you think that two articles cover history and reality then it is not liberals who are ignorant.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 9:58pm
There is nothing as convincing as a million people showing up on the mall in D.C. to persuade the administration that we mean business.
All it takes is the spark.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 4:09pm
That spark is what is fueling the Town Hall meetings...
and nothing has the demms more afraid than millions of average people with pitch forks and tar on election day...
So, go ahead Chao...
get more of those union thugs the entire country saw bussed into Wyoming, or the union thugs pushing old people around...
and let the country see the million union thugs on the WH lawn...and watch the dems lose both houses...
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 10:02pm
Chao sounds as ridiculous as FRANKGRITS with his twisted logic, as he mistakes it for his own brilliance..as he "teaches the poor ignorant ones" on the rest of the blog...and we wince at his ramblings.... along with the left as they wince.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 10:10pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 9:53pm
You can't even construct a cogent sentence..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 10:20pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 9:53pm
You can't even construct a cogent sentence..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 10:20pm
Victim of public education system..unionised of course.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 10:33pm
the only way to effectively lower healthcare costs is universal healthcare.
Posted by darladoon at 08/24/2009 @ 7:23pm
well, you could also end corn subsidies.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2009 @ 10:38pm
holy crap!
i hit "submit" and it returned me to this page!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2009 @ 10:38pm
Victim of public education system..unionised of course.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 10:33pm
well,
i went to public schools, thank you very much.
in fact, i went to a public school in the u.s., too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2009 @ 10:43pm
well,
i went to public schools, thank you very much.
in fact, i went to a public school in the u.s., too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2009 @ 10:43pm |
I rest my case...
I did go to a private university, tho.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 10:48pm
"Following the closure of the Pitney Store in late 1920, the Reagans moved to Dixon;[10] the midwestern "small universe" had a lasting impression on Reagan.[11] He attended Dixon High School,[12] where he developed interests in acting, sports, and storytelling."
you're right, john.
public schools only produce idiots.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2009 @ 10:59pm
Nice attempt, Peter...and OFA, and HCAN, and FireDoggiePond.......keep up the `good' work since there is not much else you can do.
I love this! All that Lib/Progressive energy trying to stem that tidal surge....and just may succeed in reducing it by a foot or so.....like the extensive wetlands around Galveston Bay that supposedly reduced Hurricane Ike's surge by a foot and might have even saved a house or two.
There is only one way where a Magic health care, er, health insurance, reform will have a chance with most of the Blue Dogs and SOME Repubs, is to have a credible tort reform component. Most everybody hates ambulance chasers and it is something to unite around. And, my hope is Magic won't touch it....and stay the course.
Never thought this summer can be this good! Honestly!
Posted by Happy at 08/24/2009 @ 11:17pm
Happy-I still have too many brain cells left to understand the ditto head language you speak.Do you speak English?
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 11:24pm
I never cease to be amazed. Especially when you attempt to sell your snake oil in this forum...
If your lying ass was standing next to me at this moment, I would wash your polluted mouth out with biodegradable soap.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Maybe what you need to do is actually READ the bills !
Both of the bills backed by the Obama White House – Senator Kennedy's bill (as yet unnumbered), and H.R. 3200 in the House – would create a massive new federal health insurance plan called the "public plan" or "public option." Both bills contain provisions that would result in the "public plan" covering all elective abortions.
Under the Senate (Kennedy) bill, the "public plan" would be required to cover all "essential benefits." The bill says that "essential benefits" include (but are not limited to) ambulatory patient services, hospitalization, and preventive services. Under numerous past federal court decisions, such broad categories will include elective abortion unless Congress adds an explicit exclusion for abortion – but the majority of Democrats on the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee voted down such an exclusion (the Enzi Amendment). Thus, under the Kennedy bill, many PRIVATE health plans would also be required to pay for and to provide local access to "essential benefits," and state laws that regulate abortion could be invalidated.
On July 30, the House Energy and Commerce Committee added to H.R. 3200 an amendment written by staff to Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.) and offered by Rep. Lois Capps (D-Ca.), both of whom have consistently pro-abortion career voting records. This "phony compromise" explicitly authorizes the "public plan" to cover all abortions.
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 11:39pm
This would drastically change longstanding federal policy. This means that any citizen who wants to take advantage of the public plan will be compelled to purchase coverage for abortion on demand. The federal agency will collect the premium money, receive bills from abortionists, and send the abortionists payment checks from a federal Treasury account. It is a sham to pretend that this does not constitute funding of abortion. If this passes, the federal government will be running a nationwide abortion-on-demand insurance plan.
The House bill also empowers a federal "Health Choices Commissioner" to insist that health networks provide local access to specific services (e.g., abortion).
In addition, both the Kennedy bill and H.R. 3200 also create a massive new federal program to provide subsidies to help tens of millions of Americans buy health insurance. The Kennedy bill's "essential benefits" mechanism would ensure that virtually all plans, public and private, cover elective abortion, and the new federal subsidies would flow to these plans. Under H.R. 3200 as amended by the Capps Amendment, some private plans may elect not to include abortion, but private plans that cover elective abortion will be federally subsidized. Both bills provide funds for the new premium-subsidy program through a new funding pipeline that would not be subject to the Hyde Amendment, which is merely a year-to-year provision that currently prevents federal funding of abortions in the Medicaid program. As the Associated Press accurately reported in its August 5, 2009, analysis, "A law called the Hyde amendment applies the [abortion] restrictions to Medicaid . . . The [Obama-backed] health overhaul would create a stream of federal funding not covered by the restrictions."
In three House comm
Posted by BigPasture at 08/24/2009 @ 11:39pm
You have enough hobbys. Frosty. ....
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/24/2009 @ 11:43pm
now i get it.
john, you've reverted to middle english.
cool.
"Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrymages; And Palmeres for to seeken straunge strondes, To ferne halwes, kouthe in sondry londes;"
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 01:05am
You would be better served to post on Blogs on websites like Drudge, Laura Ingraham, Rush, Michael Savage, Ann Colter, Michelle Malkin, Michael Reagan, Bauer & Rose, Hannity, Mike Church, Bill O' Reilly, Brian and the Judge or a nefarious host of other talking head Demons who deign to poison the airwaves of this once great country.
I monitor all of them daily, much to my chagrin and a very real danger to my health.
But hell, someone has to do it..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 5:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--no one has to do that...you just have nothing better to do. some day you'll be old and immobile and spending all your time chatting on the internet anonymously and realize it's no different than how you spent the rest of your life.
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 01:11am
Will somone please help me out? I can't continue to fight these Zombies off on my own.
I get weary of defending the Alamo all by my lonesome..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--a more accurate analogy for you is don quixote. keep chasin' them windmills!
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 01:14am
As a Buddhist, I am required to feel compassion. I try. I really do.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 7:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Excuse me for being a bit blunt.
But. Fuck You! and your "articles".
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 9:33pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--jus' puttin' my mask awn
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 01:19am
"You ignorant liberals have no grasp of history or reality. "
first of all, the democrats aren't liberals. so what democrats currently do, we do not support.
second, the liberals were right about everything during the bush era: the war, tax cuts, deregulation, global warming, torture, wiretapping, etc, etc.
in fact, the phrase "reality has a liberal bias"? that in and of itself sums up the mind-numbing stupidity of the bush administration, and liberals' ignored response to it....
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 01:26am
"Why Are We Moving Toward Socialized Medicine? by Yaron Brook (July 29, 2009)
It only gets worse from there..."
I know; "socialized medicine" is bad enough, but the writer also has a Jewish name, and if you read his bio, you find he was born in Israel!
None of you have even attempted to address the argument made by those articles.
"Prior to the government's entrance into medicine, health care was regarded as a product to be traded voluntarily on a free market--no different from food, clothing, or any other important good or service. Medical providers competed to provide the best quality services at the lowest possible prices. Virtually all Americans could afford basic health care, while those few who could not were able to rely on abundant private charity.
Had this freedom been allowed to endure, Americans' rising productivity would have afforded them better and better health care, just as, today, we buy better and more varied food and clothing than people did a century ago. There would be no crisis of affordability, as there isn't for food or clothing.
But by the time Medicare and Medicaid were enacted in 1965, this view of health care as an economic product--for which each individual must assume responsibility--had given way to a view of health care as a "right," an unearned "entitlement," to be provided at others' expense.
This entitlement mentality fueled the rise of our current third-party-payer system, a blend of government programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid, together with government-controlled employer-based health insurance (itself spawned by perverse tax incentives during the wage and price controls of World War II).
The resulting system aimed to relieve the individual of the "burden" of paying for his own health care by..."
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 02:10am
coercively imposing its costs on his neighbors. Today, for every dollar's worth of hospital care a patient consumes, that patient pays only about 3 cents out of pocket; the rest is paid by third-party coverage. And for the health care system as a whole, patients pay only about 14 percent.
Shifting the responsibility for health care costs away from the individuals who accrue them led to an explosion in spending. In a system in which someone else is footing the bill, consumers, encouraged to regard health care as a "right," demand medical services without having to consider their real price. When, through the 1970s and 1980s, this artificially inflated consumer demand sent expenditures soaring out of control, the government cracked down by enacting further coercive measures: price controls on medical services, cuts to medical benefits, and a crushing burden of regulations on every aspect of the health care system.
As each new intervention further distorted the health care market, driving up costs and lowering quality, belligerent voices demanded still further interventions to preserve the "right" to health care: from regulations mandating various forms of insurance coverage to Bush's massive prescription drug bill.
There can be no such thing as a "right" to products or services created by the effort of others, and this most definitely includes medical products and services. Rights, as the Founders conceived them, are not claims to economic goods, but to freedoms of action.
You are free to see a doctor and pay him for his services--no one may forcibly prevent you from doing so. But you do not have a "right" to force the doctor to treat you without charge or to force others to pay for your treatment. "
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 02:12am
The other article uses the metaphor of car insurance to show how government trying to ensure such insurance as a right simply doesn't work.
"To enforce this new "right," the government must take money from some people and give it to others, without regard for the actual risk they pose. As huge amounts of money are pumped into insurance markets, demand increases, and prices rise. Government officials blame the companies, so they pass more controls, thus squeezing the supply. Prices rise further--the law of supply and demand cannot be thwarted.
People want to be protected from greedy repair shops and auto manufacturers. So the companies undergo a ten-year approval process costing millions of dollars for new products. As lawsuits mount, courts enforce claims of strict liability against the companies--who pass the costs on. Price rises accelerate.
As people get used to a "right" to car insurance, they demand more coverage. Oil changes, brake jobs, torn seats and new tires become insurance matters. If insurance is a "right," then no one should be deprived of these goods because he cannot pay for them. Every visit to the repair shop--big or small, routine or emergency--now involves an insurance claim. Prices escalate.
Male drivers under 25 pay more because they are statistically higher risks--but they resent this inequality. So they assert their "right" to insurance at the same price as older, wiser drivers. Companies spread the costs out across the board--and as good drivers face higher premiums, they demand more coverage. Prices shoot up further.
By this point, no one asks what a repair job will actually cost--they ask only about their "co-pay." Customers have little incentive to keep costs down. Why..."
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 02:19am
"...bother to change the oil, if the insurance will give you a new engine?
As regulations increase, critics castigate companies who are unwilling to cover pre-existing conditions, such as a fender dented before the car was insured. As paperwork increases, repair shops that once had four mechanics and one secretary now have five secretaries, who spend their days filing claims. Prices rise further--until car insurance becomes a crushing burden.
By this point, the very idea that insurance should be used for catastrophic losses--not routine maintenance--has been lost. A chorus of calls for "reform" demands more government coercion to enforce the "right." Anyone who suggests reducing the controls is shouted down by those who blame the "free market" for rising costs. By this point, most people have forgotten what a free market is--or that they had no "right" to insurance before someone else produced it--or that there was a time when insurance was not so costly.
Now, bucking under the weight of economic distortions and regulations, the law of supply and demand is wreaking vengeance on those least able to pay. Medicare and Social Security are approaching insolvency, insurance companies are forbidden from selling across state lines or from offering innovative health savings accounts, and the solution offered is--even more programs, with a price tag so large that it that cannot be grasped by the human mind."
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 02:21am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add ress=132x8607826
Posted by Adam_Kirur at 08/25/2009 @ 05:10am
I can't help but notice that while all these other groups (Meetup, DFA, etc.) are endorsing either a robust public option or a single payer plan, all I am getting from my Democratic Party is "I support President Obama's health insurance reform" which is very lame.
I wonder why my Democratic Party killed Governor Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and then did nothing until now (in NC anyway) to create a party-building strategy. However, this party-building strategy doesn't really do anything to add the millions of Obamaniacs to the existing grassroots of the party.
Then there is OFA - the separate group swears a blood-oath to the cult of Barack Obama's personality. Because they do not want to work with the Democratic Party activists that at least in my state want single payer or a strong public option, they are forced to re-invent the wheel and do not have the momentum or the experienced community leaders not only from campaigns (like the one campaign the OFA folks have under their belt) but all the other campaigns from years past PLUS year-round party building (precinct organization, platforms and resolutions, etc.) .
I think the reason why Obama doesn't want to put his Obamaniacs together with the existing Democratic Party activist base is because we would all be able to assemble in great numbers to lobby the administration and Congress for real change - restore real regulatory oversight over Wall Street, and create a single-payer or robust public option to give every American access to health care that can't be denied of put them into bankruptcy.
Lame health co-opts and business as usual on Wall Street is not the change I campaigned for. So start asking why isn't the Democratic Party working with our typical partners to make this change happen?
Posted by ProgressivePitbull at 08/25/2009 @ 05:21am
Lame health co-opts and business as usual on Wall Street is not the change I campaigned for. So start asking why isn't the Democratic Party working with our typical partners to make this change happen?
Posted by ProgressivePitbull at 08/25/2009 @ 05:21am
Good Post. I believe the word here is appeasement. Obama was selected as the democratic nominee with his "vote for change" rhetoric. I guess that the powers that be figured the masses were pretty pissed off about the crap Bushco pulled off and figured they'd better pay lip service to the majority of the country that was riled up due to the extreme shift to the right during the Bush years.
So, Obama was elected under the promise of "change" but in reality he is continuing many of Bushco's policies, continuing to protect Bush administration officials, and appointing officials friendly with the very businesses that caused the financial turmoil we have been experiencing. Change like that, we can live without.
My crystal ball says that no significant healthcare reform will take place based on the responses we've seen from the White House to the flat out lies that the rethugs have put out there. If that's the best defense they can put forward, there's no way any significant healthcare reform will take place.
As the economy drags along, we'll probably have to go through bailout #3 which should pretty much flatten any chance of the U.S. economy recovering from the ultimate transfer of wealth from the poor and middle classes to the rich. This would translate as the greatest heist of wealth in modern history. The peasants will be put in their place, and the wealthy will come out of this stronger than ever.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 07:24am
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 01:19am
GOTCHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
(Is that the reason, urmy? I'm cutting you out of the "gotcha" action and that's why you bird-dog me????)
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 07:54am
As with a certain President in a flightsuit and a "Mission Accomplished" banner draped across an aircraft carrier....
I am dubious of the Right's claim to victory on "public option being dead" or even on life-support. Or the so called "fierce opposition of the Blue Dogs".
Obama has a track record, from the campaign, of "coming back" just when it was thought he was out...."Bitter" comment, Hillary "surges", Rev. Wright "scandal"?
On that last, remember it was at that moment, the Jeremiah Wright flap, that he made his speech on race and totally defused the issue except with the GOP base (who STILL talk about it).
Plus, do our local right-wingers SOUND like they've "won" on health care?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 07:58am
I have to say that single-payer makes a whole lot more sense than our current neo-facist health care system. But I think a free-market laissez-faire capitalist system makes the most sense.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 08:16am
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 01:19am
GOTCHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
(Is that the reason, urmy? I'm cutting you out of the "gotcha" action and that's why you bird-dog me????)
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 07:54am | ignore this person | warn this person
you cut me out?
I cut you out. you don't cut me out. (bonus points if you get movie reference)
no, actually, i've just been lucky enough to have a life the past few weeks. hooray!
Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 09:22am
Plus, do our local right-wingers SOUND like they've "won" on health care?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 07:58am
Mask, I'm basing what I say on what I hear from senators and congressmen/congresswomen.
Keep in mind that the "bluedogs" are nothing more than semi-moderate rethugs who wanted to distance themselves from W and didn't want to end their political careers. They still represent conservative states with conservative mandates and as you've seen, this country has more than it's share of blathering idiots reverberating the right wing b.s. talking points including most of the television networks.
It would be great if Obama had a sucker punch waiting for these folks, but unless he has some type of ace up his sleeve to play, we're going to end up with a watered down, make the big corporations happy, type of legislation where we the people lose and the corporations score yet another win....in this case, the win will be mandatory health insurance that people still can't afford. If you don't have the mandatory insurance, you may bleed to death on the street.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 09:39am
I have to say that single-payer makes a whole lot more sense than our current neo-facist health care system....
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 08:16am
In an idealized, theoretical world, sure, single-payer makes a whole lot of sense in just about every conceivable economic exchange.....can eliminate multiple layers of admin/purchasing/accounting functions.
Imagine in the smallest social unit, the family, where you are the single-payer on all household finances and have the ability to tap unlimited funds via credit cards w/out caps (like the Feds) and no late fees or personal recourse......a nice dream, isn't it? Would you not like that forever? I know I would!
Posted by Happy at 08/25/2009 @ 09:51am
antisocialist-You are better than Jesus.Even Jesus got a bit concerned when facing suffering and death and wanted to not suffer and die.He was concerned and was not looking forward to it.So,if your hand got cut off you would stand there and watch it bleed and then die?Have you faced that?Obviously not.It is easy to talk unconcerned about death,but quite different when faced with the actual event.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/24/2009 @ 9:45pm
The agony that Jesus faced was the realization of the suffering He would endure, not because of the cross, but the fact that He was about the bear the punishment of the sins of mankind. That suffering far exceeded any of the physical suffering He was to undergo.
That is why Jesus spoke of the cup of suffering. It is why believers are called to share in His cup of suffering with Christ as His body.
Philippians 1:29 says that we are granted not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.
Peter says (1 Peter 4:1) since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.
Hebrews chapters 2 and 5 speak of the perfection of Christ through His sufferings and our own path of sufferings with Him.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 10:22am
antisocialist-I'm aware that being nailed to a cross will cause suffering as would dying for the worlds sins.What does that have to do with my post?
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 10:32am
antisocialist-I'm aware that being nailed to a cross will cause suffering as would dying for the worlds sins.What does that have to do with my post?
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 10:32am
I don't think you do as evidenced by this response of yours.
It wasn't the suffering of the cross that caused Jesus to call out to the Father to ask if there was another way.
It was all about the suffering of bearing mankind's sins.
Therefore you attempt to link a hypothetical life threatening injury to me with that moment in the Garden of Gesthemane is simply misplaced.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 10:54am
antisocialist-I have lived my entire adult life going between moderate to extreme pain.I know about suffering and can relate.God in the flesh is not going to face suffering and death with the same level of fear that a human would,for obvious reasons.While dying for sins may involve increased suffering Jesus knew for a fact that it would be over rather quickly compared to the average person who was nailed to a cross and Jesus did not have same doubts about what comes next that we humans go through, eliminating that anxiety..Despite knowing these things even Jesus had His moment of doubt and fear when it came right down to that moment..
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 11:10am
I cut you out. you don't cut me out. (bonus points if you get movie reference)----Posted by urmygyro at 08/25/2009 @ 09:22am
Great analogy...
now I just get Al Nieri to shoot you through the eye while you're getting a massage!
LOL
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 11:35am
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 09:39am
But, Wolf...where are you hearing from those Congresspeople???
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 11:36am
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 10:22am
Hey Larry....how many women came to Jesus' tomb?
A. 1- John 20:1?
B. 2- Matthew 28:1?
C. 3- Mark 16:1?
D. 5+ Luke 24:1, 10?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 11:38am
O'Reilly is a moderate by his terminology and someone whom I consider to be left of center on a number of issues. .....
< Posted by antisocialist at 08/24/2009 @ 6:28pm
That statement speaks volumes. If O'Reilly is a moderate than I guess I am a socialist or communist! LOL
i'm nobody, Aren't you the guy who was the medic in Vietnam? You know you are wasting your time trying to discuss this with Liv. The Jesus he's talking about and the Jesus you are talking about are not the same man. You are comparing apples and oranges.
The Jesus in the bible is not a man of war, nor is he the hardened judge of mankind that those on the right are. They ought to remember that you'll be measured by the stick you measured men against...in this case, Liv will have a lot of explainin to do come his time for the pearly gates if that statement holds true.Isn't it something like "wow unto thee who leads my children astray". You can't get much more astray than Liv and he's a leading his flock off a cliff.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 11:41am
wolfgang-I'm guilty of being that medic.I realize that anti must stick with his dogmatic view of Jesus,but discussing the subject helps me work out my own views.I'm the type who benefits by writing things out.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 11:46am
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 11:36am
Mask, Here's an article from the NY Times and then there's the CBO's report which the bluedogs and rethugs are going to use such as Leiberman does. If they can scare people with blatant lies, mixing truth of the CBO report with lies will be even more successful.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24talkshows.html?hpw
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 11:49am
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 11:46am
Well, for the record, you truly are a war hero from my perspective and I would side with you that you probably do have a something in common with the suffering J.C. was supposed to have endured.
One is philosphical (dying for the sins of man part), the other one is quite direct, life-threatening and painful (the crucifiction part). The crucifiction is what killed him, not the sin part. Nobody died from sinning in this life at least as a direct punishment from God. He was crucified for the sins of man.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:00pm
the republicans answer to controlling healthcare costs:
*eliminate "frivolous" medical malpractice lawsuits
*tort reform
that's it.
oh, and the hypocrisy from the GOP is astounding: on the one hand, they don't want to cut funding from medicare to pay for reform, and on the other, they bash single-payer systems on principle (not realizing that medicare is single-payer).
hmmmm....
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:01pm
Posted by chaoszen at 08/24/2009 @ 6:29pm
Chaos - I just ignore Rio / Pasture / Comanche, although I do sometimes read his posts when I want a laugh. His ravings are so lunatic and so non-fact based that I think if we all just don't respond to him, he'll get bored with us and go attack elsewhere.
Keep up the good fight though. You are not alone in the wilderness.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:06pm
oh, and the hypocrisy from the GOP is astounding: on the one hand, they don't want to cut funding from medicare to pay for reform, and on the other, they bash single-payer systems on principle (not realizing that medicare is single-payer).
hmmmm....
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:01pm
And on the other hand, they are all for funding wars lasting years reaching into decades. They see zero problem with spending all of our precious tax dollars on the military industrial complex, but God forbid that little Suzie can go to the doctor on the tax payer's dime.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:07pm
I know; "socialized medicine" is bad enough, but the writer also has a Jewish name, and if you read his bio, you find he was born in Israel!
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 02:10am
a country with socialized medicine!
lollying!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:08pm
(Is that the reason, urmy? I'm cutting you out of the "gotcha" action and that's why you bird-dog me????)
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 07:54am
i believe urm has appointed itself blog psy-ops enforcer.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:11pm
wolfgang1, it's astounding to me that only NOW, when a black democrat owns the white house, that we start intensely debating how much things cost. and even costs that actually matter (healthcare).
did we have any public debate about costs between 2002-2008?
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:11pm
the republicans answer to controlling healthcare costs:
*eliminate "frivolous" medical malpractice lawsuits
*tort reform
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:01pm
Darla, Darla, Darla, You forgot their biggest bestest one.....tax cuts. Tax cuts fix everything. They fix the economy, remove stains, clean your dishes sparkly clean, make your kids get straight A's in school and are just down right wholesome. Tax cuts are just red, white and blue. Taxation of the wealthy is communism, socialism, and any other ism their little heads can come up with....Darwinism!!LOL
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:11pm
I have to say that single-payer makes a whole lot more sense than our current neo-facist health care system. But I think a free-market laissez-faire capitalist system makes the most sense.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 08:16am
for police and fire services, too!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:13pm
I have to say that single-payer makes a whole lot more sense than our current neo-facist health care system. But I think a free-market laissez-faire capitalist system makes the most sense.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/25/2009 @ 08:16am
just imagine:
goldman sachs would make a killing in Coronary Default Swaps.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:14pm
Remember to support the Members of the Progressive Caucus who are fighting for the public option on your behalf.
http://www.actblue.com/page/theytookthepledge
Posted by sherl1128 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:14pm
yeah, more tax cuts, that's exactly what we need. and not we working people. i'm not talking about cuts for the wealthy. they already pay way, way too much. it must be awful up there in the upper 0.1%
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:15pm
antisocialist-I'm aware that being nailed to a cross will cause suffering as would dying for the worlds sins.What does that have to do with my post?
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 10:32am
crucifixion is considered a pre-existing condition.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:17pm
did we have any public debate about costs between 2002-2008?
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 12:11pm
Nope. And, you just watch, the debt that W ran up from Iraq and his tax cuts for the wealthy will all now be Obama's fault.
I'm not much pleased for Obama's selection of cabinet members (this reaching across the isle b.s.) but the man hasn't been in office long enough yet to mess things up to where they are now. He inherited the biggest mess since FDR. W, on the other hand, managed to create the biggest mess since the great depression in his eight years in office.....congratulations W for being the biggest dolt ever to step foot in the White House.
On one hand I feel sorry for Obama, but on the other hand, I hope he realizes that he's the president, not the right wing whack jobs dominating the news. He needs to use the bully pulpit and take these Aholes on and get the bluedogs in line as well. The people need a leader, and he needs to step up to the plate, not sit back and watch.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 12:20pm
wolfgang-Jesus does not come across as someone who would do the my suffering is worse than your suffering thing and would not want us to view it that way.I believe that Jesus expressed His moment doubt and fear in order for us humans to be able to relate to Him in a more meaningful way because we can certainly relate to the fear behind a very painful death..We can figure that we are not so bad when pain,suffering,and the thought of death gets us down because such things even caused Jesus some problems.
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 12:23pm
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 11:38am
You must be bored.
At least 5. There is no contradiction. What you have is 4 different testimonies, each with a different focus. As has been often mentioned, it is no different than the different testimony of eyewitnesses at a trial. Each sees the same event(s), differently.
None of these four accounts claims to have a complete list of the women who went to the tomb. For example, Matthew says that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb, but it doesn't say that no one else went with them. In fact, John, who only mentions Mary Magdelene in his list of who went to the tomb, obviously is aware that others went with her, since, in the very next verse, he has Mary telling Peter and John, "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him." If John was under the impression that Mary went to the tomb alone, then who is the 'we' that he has Mary talking about? There are no contradictions in these four accounts.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 12:49pm
Obama and the dems are the product of the far left and he is your boy and Pelosi your girl...if you on the left can't get it done and so many people across the land don't want anything to do with it, as it apperas, since the Obamites have to BUS IN UNION THUGS from miles away in "support",...then my guess is you aint getting your health care deal done,
and the country has been saved. Now we should dump the idea and proceed to the real problem,.... health care reform.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/25/2009 @ 1:01pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/25/2009 @ 12:23pm
Agreed. The guys whole life was leading by example. He never killed anyone. He died a horrible death and wasn't too excited about doing it and had his doubts and fears.
See, the Rambo Jesus would climb up onto the cross, hand the nails to Romans and laugh as they drove the spikes in.
This is what kills me off about that whole story. If Jesus was who they say he was, he had the power to destroy Rome by himself. But, instead, he allowed Rome to and or the the Sanhedrin to crucify him.
The so called followers of Jesus wear wristbands asking what would Jesus do, and then are all blood and guts fired up about invading other countries and show zero compassion for their fellow man. So, they go to bible school, go to church on sunday, but pay absolutely no attention to the actions of the man they claim to follow.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 1:01pm
rucifixion is considered a pre-existing condition.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:17pm
Not only that, but he had information prior to the crucifixtion did he not? Denied Payment!!
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 1:03pm
Why do the reactionaries like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Fox News bobbleheads bring up the U.S. Post Office in the healthcare debate as an example of a failed government program? I stopped using Fedex and DHL a long time ago for overnight mail. The US Postal Service is a better deal for overnight mail--easier to locate, easier to use, and totally reliable! I think bobbleheads use the case of the US Postal Service thinking that Americans are stupid about consumer decisions, like who to hire to deliver next-day mail. Americans are not stupid! Only the viewers of Fox News, and the reactionary old farts who listen to AM talk radio! Most of us READ and are skeptical.
Posted by ant0n1us at 08/25/2009 @ 1:07pm
Hey Jomamma, your guys are also busing in folks at town halls, and weirdos they are to say the least.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/25/2009 @ 1:16pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 11:49am
Lotta Repub/Right hope laid at the Blue Dog doorstep...as well as a lot fear and dread from the Left.
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 1:22pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 12:11pm
Yep...self-appointed power is always the most fun.
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 1:23pm
"...bring up the U.S. Post Office in the healthcare debate as an example of a failed government program? "
Posted by ant0n1us at 08/25/2009 @ 1:07pm
Because it is typical of govt involvement in any enterprise...the PO had to be brought into the overnight market kicking and screaming, which demonstrates in ability to innovate..
the fact that people were willing to spend $10 to get a letter over night is proof of inability to provide a needed service or even THINK of a new one...
the fact that the PO loses money at an incredible rate without regard to operating expenses, costs, wages, or any consideration that would govern every other enterprise prooves the inability to be finacialy responsible...
Then there is the fact the PO lost out on a monopoly they had in parcel post to UPS, prooves the inability to handle the business it has and can lose out to a start up company at the time and let it steal all their business in parcel post without any change in business tactics..ie, think of the consumer...its customers...
forget the fact that 7 windows in PO, 3 are always closed, 1 on break, 2 more empty as the workers run around out back looking for items, and the others are pounding inl stamps on packages and selling stamps....and the line goes out the door and winds into Kansas..
these are the same types you want to turn over your health care to manage...
I will pass on that opportunity.
Any other questions?
Do your due diligence.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/25/2009 @ 1:25pm
each with a different focus. As has been often mentioned, it is no different than the different testimony of eyewitnesses at a trial. Each sees the same event(s), differently."---Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 12:49pm
Hmmmm....I always thought the Bible was supposed to be the "accurate, literal, and divinely-inspired Truth"...
now it's all about "focus" and "seeing the same event(s) differently"?!?!??
What ELSE in the Bible is so subjective?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 1:26pm
Oops Stephen not Steven, sorry.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/25/2009 @ 1:27pm
$2.00 a day is exactly what it cost in Canada to be on the single payer universal health care plan. I am a US citizen who has been a permanent resident(landed immigrant) of Canada for the last 4 years and I am enrolled in the "public option". I am also a stage IV cancer patient and can attest to the excellent and timely care I recieve here. My personal delimma is that I cannot return home to California and be insured. My medications will not be paid for either should I return. At end of life stuff we all want to be close to family and friends but without a single payer US plan I will not be returning home. It's an embarrasment that my native country will not care for me but my adopted country will. We claim to be a nation of compassionate people but our representatives show more compassion to wall street than to our residents.
Posted by karis at 08/25/2009 @ 1:28pm
This is what kills me off about that whole story. If Jesus was who they say he was, he had the power to destroy Rome by himself. But, instead, he allowed Rome to and or the the Sanhedrin to crucify him.
The so called followers of Jesus wear wristbands asking what would Jesus do, and then are all blood and guts fired up about invading other countries and show zero compassion for their fellow man. So, they go to bible school, go to church on sunday, but pay absolutely no attention to the actions of the man they claim to follow.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 1:01pm
Your conclusion ignores what Jesus said about why He came upon the earth.
John 12:27,31-33
<"Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.
Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all [peoples] to Myself."
This He said, signifying by what death He would die.>
And Mark 10:45
<For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many.>
For as He told Pilate in John 18:36, if He wanted He could command His servants to fight.
<Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.">
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 1:28pm
Forget the so-called Public Option and don't support HCAN. As was eloquently pointed out in a recent letter to the Nation editors (sorry I have no link), any solution built alongside the existing private insurance complex is a loser. The public plan as envisioned in HR 3200 will not be able to compete with the private sector except by emulating its worst characteristics -- denying benefits, shifting costs to consumers -- because competition in the health insurance biz is a race to the bottom, my friends.
The only humane and rational solution with a realistic chance of solving our systemic problems is known by two words: Single Payer. True, it will only happen over the dead bodies of the insurance companies, which is OK with me. (And John Conyers Single Payer bill HR 676 provides that displaced health insurance workers receive first priority for retraining and employment with the national health insurance program.)
And don't buy the defeatist argument that Single Payer won't happen so we might as well give up and compromise. HR 3200 is no better than the status quo so we've nothing to lose by doing the only moral and rational thing: fight for Single Payer, HR 676 and Senate 703.
Posted by davidmintz at 08/25/2009 @ 1:47pm
Hmmmm....I always thought the Bible was supposed to be the "accurate, literal, and divinely-inspired Truth"...
now it's all about "focus" and "seeing the same event(s) differently"?!?!??
What ELSE in the Bible is so subjective?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 1:26pm
That doesn't make it subjective at all. Each of the gospel writers wrote from their own framework just as G-d has always done. They wrote about the same events in that manner which actually provides further proof that the testimonies are authentic rather than a later mythological creation which would have tried to make them as replications of each other.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 1:57pm
We claim to be a nation of compassionate people but our representatives show more compassion to wall street than to our residents.
Posted by karis at 08/25/2009 @ 1:28pm
Bingo! Sorry about your cancer. This country needs an enema.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 2:59pm
"That doesn't make it subjective at all. Each of the gospel writers wrote from their own framework just as G-d has always done."---Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 1:57pm
Larry...what is the definition of the word "subjective"?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 3:25pm
"That doesn't make it subjective at all. Each of the gospel writers wrote from their own framework just as G-d has always done."---Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 1:57pm
Larry...what is the definition of the word "subjective"?
Posted by Mask at 08/25/2009 @ 3:25pm
I think the best way to answer you is in posting from the Evangelical Statement on Inerrancy.
Article VII.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration was the work in which God by His Spirit, through human writers, gave us His Word. The origin of Scripture is divine. The mode of divine inspiration remains largely a mystery to us.
WE DENY that inspiration can be reduced to human insight, or to heightened states of consciousness of any kind.
Article VIII.
WE AFFIRM that God in His work of inspiration utilized the distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers whom He had chosen and prepared.
WE DENY that God, in causing these writers to use the very words that He chose, overrode their personalities.
Article IX.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration, though not conferring omniscience, guaranteed true and trustworthy utterance on all matters of which the Biblical authors were moved to speak and write.
WE DENY that the finitude or fallenness of these writers, by necessity or otherwise, introduced distortion or falsehood into God's Word
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 3:53pm
b***s***
Posted by jarshadow at 08/25/2009 @ 5:34pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 3:53pm
wow. So a bunch of humans got together and agreed that another bunch of humans were infallible, and so therefore the Bible, transliterated and translated through several different human languages, interpreted ad nauseum, edited (where is Jesus' adolescence in the Bible, anyway?), chewed over, fought over for two thousand years...and is still the literal word of God?
Does the fact that the Evangelical Statement on Inerrancy was even needed not say something to you, or are you just a blind sheep waiting for your shepherd? Isn't it just the slightest bit self-serving, or do you not see that?
I use the shepherd image specifically to battle something which I believe has become orthodoxy among evangelical Christians: laziness. Instead of using your god-given brain to actively question and seek your own guidance on matters spiritual, you (the generic "you," mind you) simply accept blind dogma from others who have written or made statements about your faith. I believe that god wants us to think for ourselves, question or leaders, both religious and worldly, seek out the truth wherever we may find it and share that truth with others, knowing full well that god does indeed work in mysterious ways and it is not for man to determine what those ways are.
I am not a sheep.
The truth for you, Larry, is NOT be the truth for everyone; my truth is mine alone. The truth for Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, agnostics, etc. is still truth, regardless of which prophet they follow, or for those who follow no prophet at all.
Do you truly believe that yours is the ONLY way that god created for mankind to reach salvation? If so, I feel very sorry for you, because your way is both limiting and fearful and you are a sheep indeed.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/25/2009 @ 6:04pm
I am not a sheep.
Do you truly believe that yours is the ONLY way that god created for mankind to reach salvation? If so, I feel very sorry for you, because your way is both limiting and fearful and you are a sheep indeed.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/25/2009 @ 6:04pm
I fully and proudly admit to being a sheep.
John 10
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."
Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
I gladly bear the label of sheep because that is one of the terms which the Lord refers to His people.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 7:45pm
Does the fact that the Evangelical Statement on Inerrancy was even needed not say something to you
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/25/2009 @ 6:04pm
Is this anything like the belief in Progressive Infallability?
Posted by sntauri at 08/25/2009 @ 7:48pm
Jude 3
<Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints>
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 7:51pm
This country needs an enema.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/25/2009 @ 2:59pm
well, please don't aim north.
or south, for that matter.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/25/2009 @ 8:51pm
Random aside: I never cease to be amazed by how many people are ready to bash on the post office, and that it invariably gets dragged in as an example of government failure, especially in the context of health care reform. Think about it. they offer three-day delivery to anywhere in the U.S. for a rate even now still between 25 to 45 cents, consistently, reliably, for decades now. They have never, in my lifetime, lost, misplaced, or damaged any mail I have ever given them, in my experience performing reliably and consistently with the thousands of items I have entrusted to them. it is truly staggeringly amazing to me that they offer the service that they do, for so little money. few days go by that I do not have reason to say thank you to the USPS. so enough with all the whining, let's try saying thank you for once.
Posted by canaro71 at 08/25/2009 @ 9:10pm
If the "free market" really worked there wouldn't be any need for the government to get involved in healthcare.
Posted by mtspence05 at 08/25/2009 @ 9:19pm
I'm not worried. I believe that the Public Option will be run just as well as the Indian Health Service.
Posted by sntauri at 08/25/2009 @ 9:21pm
"these are the same types you want to turn over your health care to manage... "
again, even more evidence that maasch has no idea what he's talking about.
maasch, let me repeat something very simple:
the hospitals, doctors, nurses, clinics, etc, ALREADY EXIST AS SUCH.
the ONLY thing that would differ, under say a single payer system, is that the doctors will send the bill to the government, instead of the patient.
the structure of the PO doesn't come close to the structure of a hospital.
maasch, ever had hospital visits in europe or canada?
did those experiences in any way resemble your experiences with the PO?
Posted by darladoon at 08/25/2009 @ 10:52pm
Random aside: I never cease to be amazed by how many people are ready to bash on the post office, and that it invariably gets dragged in as an example of government failure,...
Posted by canaro71 at 08/25/2009 @ 9:10pm
I have some random sympathies for the post office from time to time. But the PO should be viewed & assessed much more business-like and from the standpoint of industrial engineering (ie, efficiency/logistics).
What the PO do, has been done for longer than any of us alive. The routes its drivers drive, and the stops they make are absolutely the same each and every day. Change to them, is a new apt. complex, subdivsion or commercial building that goes `live'. Further, almost all of the physical sorting have been perfected by machines for some times.
Now, in light of the predictability of the tasks the PO perform, shouldn't the question really be, why ISN'T the Post Office held up as the best example of Gubber services that is 100% self-funded, instead of vice versa????
Posted by Happy at 08/25/2009 @ 11:15pm
The objective is really "single payer", ie government control - a terrible outcome. Just look at that poor woman in Oregon who was denied "potential" life saving or life extension by the government board. She did get the drug treatment free of charge from the drug company. Interesting isn't it? The drug company had more compassion than the government. I guess, to that woman the government board really was a death board. Score one for Sarah Palin...
Posted by pyeatte at 08/25/2009 @ 11:41pm
"In the jungle, the Mighty jungle, the Lion sleeps tonight."
RIP to the Lion of the Senate, Edward Kennedy. I am sure your brothers are welcoming you to heaven saying, "Thanks Teddy, for keeping up the good fight."
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 02:28am
Do you truly believe that yours is the ONLY way that god created for mankind to reach salvation? If so, I feel very sorry for you, because your way is both limiting and fearful and you are a sheep indeed.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/25/2009 @ 6:04pm
Stephen, It's impossible to discuss religion with Liv. His source, the Bible, is the only source in his eyes. If you discuss another religion, he will quote the bible stating the all other forms of religions are false ones. A self perpetuating ordeal to be sure and he doesn't see that. He see that in the Koran, but doesn't see it in the Bible.
I can't remember who always uses the Easter Bunny as their example here, but I'll steal their God for a minute. Lets say that I'm in a religion where the Easter Bunny is my God and that religions has a book that says that the Easter Bunny is the only true God and that worshiping any other god or bunny for that matter is blasphemous and punishable by no candy at Easter and worse yet, eternal damnation in hell with republicans and people who don't shower often enough.
My point is that people following religious dogma base their entire life off what is written and usually how their ministers interpret those books, or how some biblical scholar they like interprets it but the base here is that it's an interpretation by a human, not a God. They can't seem to get past that reasoning, so it's pointless to discuss the issue with them.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 08:17am
I have always felt sorry for Ted Kennedy. He had to watch two of his brothers assassinated (over and over again because they were public figures). I can't imagine having to go through that with my brothers.....luckily they are still alive. No wonder the guy liked to slam a drink now and then.
The Kennedy family may very well be rich, but they've had their fair share of assassinations and plane crashes.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 08:23am
"WE DENY that the finitude or fallenness of these writers, by necessity or otherwise, introduced distortion or falsehood into God's Word"---Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 3:53pm
So in CONTRADICTION to the Bible's own statements that ALL men are imperfect, tainted by sin, etc......we suddenly discover that the writers of the Bible WERE perfect and incapable of pride or error.
At the least, as Larry admitted, they had "different foci" and "seen events differently"....yet all are supposedly "accurate". ((Oddly, Larry cited "eyewitness testimony" as further proof...when as any criminal prosecutor or police officer will tell you...that's usually the WORST kind of evidence.))
But the basic contradiction continues...
How do "imperfect, sin-tainted men" write a "perfect book"? UNLESS their sin and imperfection is somehow "set aside" by God while they write....but that would raise ANOTHER contradiction, that of God over-riding Man's "sinful nature" during Life...which is also impossible according to the Bible, except for Jesus.
Posted by Mask at 08/26/2009 @ 08:29am
That doesn't make it subjective at all. Each of the gospel writers wrote from their own framework just as G-d has always done. They wrote about the same events in that manner which actually provides further proof that the testimonies are authentic rather than a later mythological creation which would have tried to make them as replications of each other.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/25/2009 @ 1:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--sounds as believable as ted kennedy saying he wasn't drunk at chapaquiddick
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 08:40am
No wonder the guy liked to slam a drink now and then.
The Kennedy family may very well be rich, but they've had their fair share of assassinations and plane crashes.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 08:23am
I think he drank well before the death of his brothers...
he drank in college like a pro and had someone else take his exams....
I wonder if Kopeckni had any thing to do with his drinking....
I am amazed how the left holds him up as an example of virtue, when if they really dug into his family and back ground...and they , the left, were honest in their ideals, would have cashiered him years ago...in reality, he would be getting out of jail by now, if he were "ONE OF US"...
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 08:46am
"In the jungle, the Mighty jungle, the Lion sleeps tonight."
RIP to the Lion of the Senate, Edward Kennedy. I am sure your brothers are welcoming you to heaven saying, "Thanks Teddy, for keeping up the good fight."
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 02:28am | ignore this person | warn this person
--the lion slept july 19th, 1969, that's for sure.
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 08:48am
I have always felt sorry for Ted Kennedy. He had to watch two of his brothers assassinated (over and over again because they were public figures). I can't imagine having to go through that with my brothers.....luckily they are still alive. No wonder the guy liked to slam a drink now and then.
The Kennedy family may very well be rich, but they've had their fair share of assassinations and plane crashes.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 08:23am | ignore this person | warn this person
--ignore chappaquiddick
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 08:51am
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 08:46am
Bad mouthing people that have just died is pretty near the top of low class behavior. Maybe you might want to save your jackass comments for another topic.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 09:34am
srjenkins--what he's a saint cause he's dead?
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 10:03am
Posted by pyeatte at 08/25/2009 @ 11:41pm
Don't confuse good PR with compassion.
Since Ted Kennedy had glioblastoma, let me ask you this: Are you for making Temodar and Avastin available to every glioblastoma patient?
Temodar is taken once a month in a pill form for 5 days. I am not exactly sure of the direct out of pocket cost that insurance pays for, but $2500 is probably a good working number. That's $30,000/year.
Avastin is a newer drug given intraveneously every two weeks. Again, I am not sure the exact cost per treatment, but $15,000 is probably close. That's $30,000/month or $360,000/year.
Add in the costs involved with tumor biopsy/resection, radiotherapy, and so forth and that's more than $1,000,000 the first year, which is the average that someone with a glioblastoma lives.
If you figure about 9,000 people are newly diagnosed with a glioblastoma every year, then you are talking about $9 billion dollars. With volume and time lags for chemotherapy after radiation, the price might be driven down some, but you are still talking something north of $6 billion. And if you offer it to them, why not those with anaplastic astrocytomas or oligodendroglioma? What about cancers in other parts of the body where Avastin looks to be effective?
The problem with much of the conservative defense of the status quo is that they want to focus on the anecdotal examples where people were denied coverage rather than talk about general policies and costs. Rather than talk about the millions that are uninsured and uninsurable, you want to cherry pick examples where people were denied coverage - without acknowledging that this happens at every step of the current process anyway.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 10:22am
Are you for making Temodar and Avastin available to every glioblastoma patient?
Temodar is taken once a month in a pill form for 5 days. I am not exactly sure of the direct out of pocket cost that insurance pays for, but $2500 is probably a good working number. That's $30,000/year.
Avastin is a newer drug given intraveneously every two weeks. Again, I am not sure the exact cost per treatment, but $15,000 is probably close. That's $30,000/month or $360,000/year.
Add in the costs involved with tumor biopsy/resection, radiotherapy, and so forth and that's more than $1,000,000 the first year, which is the average that someone with a glioblastoma lives.
If you figure about 9,000 people are newly diagnosed with a glioblastoma every year, then you are talking about $9 billion dollars. With volume and time lags for chemotherapy after radiation, the price might be driven down some, but you are still talking something north of $6 billion.
The problem with much of the conservative defense of the status quo is that they want to focus on the anecdotal examples where people were denied coverage rather than talk about general policies and costs. Rather than talk about the millions that are uninsured and uninsurable, you want to cherry pick examples where people were denied coverage - without acknowledging that this happens at every step of the current process anyway.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 10:22am
Accepting your figures as realistic, I think your argument strengthens the conservative argument. A govt plan that extends treatments like this to a broader range of the population will only further bankrupt the nation or will lead to drastic rationing of care.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 10:36am
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 10:03am
Ever consider that there may be people that read these blogs that have cancer? People that wanted Kennedy to pull through or beat the odds because if he could do it, perhaps they, their mother or someone else they care about might beat the odds too?
Ever consider that by bad mouthing him, the day that he died or the day after, that you aren't just not honoring his life, you're not honoring the people that care about him, your not honoring his struggle with this disease and by extension, you are not honoring the people that are in a similar circumstance.
Do you know what its like to be terminally ill? I don't, but I definitely respect a person that wakes up every day and carries on, who keeps hope alive even when there doesn't seem to be any.
Ted Kennedy, regardless of how you feel about his political beliefs, was someone that other people with glioblastomas or other people with terminal illness identified with. They understand how sick people, and dead people for that matter, are on the receiving end of a lot of abuse by small minded assholes that puff themselves up by cutting other people down.
If you have to puff yourself up, do it next week. Today, lets try to remember the good things about Ted Kennedy and honor his life and what he had to go through at the end of it.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 10:57am
Don't you get it? It's a Christian Nation: J.S. Mill, On Liberty, true as forever: "…. By Christianity I here mean ... the maxims and precepts contained in the New Testament. These are considered sacred, and accepted as laws, by all professing Christians. Yet it is scarcely too much to say that not one Christian in a thousand guides or tests his individual conduct by reference to those laws. The standard to which he does refer it, is the custom of his nation, his class, or his religious profession. He has thus, on the one hand, a collection of ethical maxims, which he believes to have been vouchsafed to him by infallible wisdom as rules for his government; and on the other, [those that] stand in direct opposition … and are, on the whole, a compromise between the Christian creed and the interests and suggestions of worldly life.… All Christians believe that the blessed are the poor and humble, and those who are ill used by the world; that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven; that they should judge not, lest they be judged; that they should swear not at all; that they should love their neighbor as themselves; … that they should take no thought for the morrow; that if they would be perfect, they should sell all that they have and give it to the poor....They do believe [these things b]ut in the sense of that living belief which regulates conduct, they believe these doctrines just up to the point to which it is usual to act upon them. The doctrines in their integrity are serviceable to pelt adversaries with; and it is understood that they are to be put forward (when possible) as the reasons for whatever people do that they think laudable…. The doctrines have no hold on ordinary believers."
Posted by vlashua at 08/26/2009 @ 11:11am
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 08:46am
Lord yes, Maasch....why would ANYBODY celebrate the life of a silver-spooner from a rich New England family who spent his "mis-spent youth" as a drunk?
Anybody like that should have been cashiered out years earlier.....or atleat before they became President in 2001.
Posted by Mask at 08/26/2009 @ 11:17am
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 10:36am
I disagree. This problem exists for any system - private or public. The current primarily private system is estimated to be more than 17.6% of GDP in 2009. Compare that to 1960 (5.2%), 1970 (7.2%), 1980 (9.1%), 1990 (12.3%), 2000 (13.8%).
So, it is not a situation where you can sit back and do nothing - because something needs to be done. The question is what? The bottom line is that you have to have a conversation about rationing. Research has shown that 5% of the population accounts for half of all health care expenditures. So, while we can talk about creating administrative efficiencies and what not, you really have to have a discussion about what is going on with this 5%.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 11:20am
--ignore chappaquiddick
Posted by urmygyro at 08/26/2009 @ 08:51am
Evidently being found not guilty doesn't mean anything to you and JM. Now Scooter Libby, who was found guilty of obstructing justice gets a kitchen pass from W and that's just fine and dandy.
I'll humor you on something though. Say Kennedy was drunk, drove off the bridge and his wife drowned and was let off the hook for something he was guilty of. His actions cost one life...his wife's. Now, lets contrast that with your rethug poster boys Dick Cheney and W. How many people are dead on their account? How many American soldiers lives are screwed up, how many with missing limbs, mental problems etc.? Chappaquiddick is small potatoes when compared with that and yet you think nothing of giving Cheney and Bush a pass for blatantly breaking the rule of law time and time again in pursuit of their middle east agenda.
Back to Kennedy. I didn't know him personnaly. But, for idiots like JM to be so god damned stupid as not to have a clue as to what Ted Kennedy must have gone through watching his brothers assassinated on national television speaks volumes about JM, not Kennedy. You wingnuts have zero empathy for anyone not fitting into your little molds.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 11:28am
Wolfie,
bring found not guiltyt is not the same as being found innocent. .......
Ask OJ.
Winning in court has nothing to do with justice or "rightness" of ones cause...it is strictly and sadly, only dependent on what is legal
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 11:50am
Accepting your figures as realistic, I think your argument strengthens the conservative argument. A govt plan that extends treatments like this to a broader range of the population will only further bankrupt the nation or will lead to drastic rationing of care.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 10:36am
What stops the private insurance companies RIGHT NOW from rationing this kind of care? Nothing. So they have made a promise to someone (by accepting premiums for years), then someone is diagnosed with this cancer and they ration this care, or deny them coverage, or rescind their policy. Either way (govt or private), your solution would be to let them die because the treatment is too expensive.
So, the cure is to bring down the price of the medical care. How does one do that? A good start would be to get rid of the middlemen between the doctor and his patient: i.e. the insurance companies who do nothing but add costs to the process.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:05pm
Anybody like that should have been cashiered out years earlier.....or atleat before they became President in 2001.
Posted by Mask at 08/26/2009 @ 11:17am
One small caviot...
Bush stopped drinking , was monogomous in marriage, never killed or abandoned anyone in an "accident", cheated in college, got drunk with nephews while they "got some babes on the beach", i can go on.....
an epiphany...
.... many disagree with Kennedys politics, hell, even JFK would have voted against him, since JFK fundementaly was to the right of Ronald Reagan....
but the left holds him up as a moral giant...
we will see what Bush gets on his day of passing....not that I really care...or on my day of passing.
And Bush did win election for the WH..Teddy could get to first base....
and with his history, you and I would get exactly what I told Denise on another thread...free health care...in prison...
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:08pm
And Wolfie,
Libby went to JAIL...
Kennedey went to...
the Senate.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:10pm
Winning in court has nothing to do with justice or "rightness" of ones cause...it is strictly and sadly, only dependent on what is legal
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 11:50am
And you have a BETTER system in mind? Perhaps one in which people like YOU determine the guilt or innocence (forget the trial) of people like OJ, or Ted Kennedy, or Laura Bush?
The legal system, you idiot, is the basis of EVERYTHING we have in this country because we are a country of laws. If you don't respect those laws, or the outcomes of legal trials (and yes, miscarriages of justice do occur from time to time, I'm not arguing that the system is perfect), then get the hell out of my country. Our legal system is one of the best ideas mankind has come up with to deal with criminality, while also defending the rights of the innocent and minorities.
No, it ain't perfect, but I would LOVE to know your idea of how to replace our system of laws, you ignorant imbecile.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:14pm
".. how many with missing limbs, mental problems etc.? Chappaquiddick is small potatoes when compared with that and yet you think nothing of giving Cheney and Bush a pass for blatantly breaking the rule of law time and time again in pursuit of their middle east agenda. "
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 11:28am
Really? Small potatoes?? Think it is nothing but French Fries to the Kopechne family..
Got a problem with Bush and CVheney...are they not innocent? Charges filed by the powers that be today?
or in your words...
"or does this post say more about WOLFIE than the Kennedeys?"
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:15pm
"or does this post say more about WOLFIE than the Kennedeys?"
Posted by YourJomamma
What, how many Bush's or Cheney's have been assassinated or for that matter republicans? In the late 60's it was target practice for republicans....Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy, Martin Luther King. I don't see any conservatives in there, do you JM?
Then there's the recent Kennedy's death, John Jr. who's plane just happened to malfunction. Why doesn't this just happen to rethugs asshole?!
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:28pm
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:14pm |
I never condemmed the system..I just pointed out one of the facts of the system.
That not guilty is not the same as innocent.
I am not sure what you were reading into my post that isnt there...
and it was pointed out to me that he was found innocent...no, he was not...he was found not guilty.
read the post I responded to Steve...it should fall into perspective...something that doesn't exist around here.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:29pm
Then there's the recent Kennedy's death, John Jr. who's plane just happened to malfunction. Why doesn't this just happen to rethugs asshole?!
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:28pm
Plane crashes? death...
I have been to more funerals in my family between the ages of 14 -21 than the Kennedys....
so what? Give me an excuse for what?
Bad behavior? Public office?
John Jr and JFK? I got news for you.. both were more conservative than Teddy...and my guess is based on THEIR writings..John Jr took Teddy and cousins to the wood shed..and Reagan got his tax and defence ideas from JFK...that both would be conservative today as they never shifted their stances...which puts them squarly in the right of center in todays belief system..not where you sit.
Asshole?
You are an emotional twit. You fit the sterotype of the loon liberal...forget the facts on the ground and attack emotionaly.
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:45pm
Word, Mask.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:49pm
No jommama, your the twit, you have no moral compass save what YOU think is right, well guess what, your not right your just a TWIT!
Posted by Denise29 at 08/26/2009 @ 1:03pm
Posted by Denise29 at 08/26/2009 @ 1:03pm
Thats intelligent...no sterotype emotional rant in place of the actual debate lib responce here...
I have a thinking question for you...
Do you think, despite the uproar and huge decent over the govt health care bill, that debate will shift from it's contents as justifacation for passage anyway...
..to..
..demanding it be passed because of Kennedys death and we need to honor him? think the left will go that direction to blunt the obvious flaws and collapse of the bill since the majority hate it?
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 1:39pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:29pm
Just curious, how is "it is strictly and sadly, only dependent on what is legal" NOT a condemnation of the system? " Sadly?"
"Dependent on what is legal" IS the basis of our entire system of government. Your viewpoint implies that there is something wrong with the system because people like OJ (and in your mind, Ted Kennedy, and in my mind, Laura Bush) all got off after a death occurred in which they were involved.
I am saying that there are always going to be cases in which guilty people (or people who did not go to jail) are going to go free. If you believe that Teddy Kennedy should have gone to jail for the death of Ms. Kopechnie, then by that same standard, the saintly Laura Bush should have had some prison time, too. But that's not the point.
The point is that our system of laws, which you mock simply because you hate Ted Kennedy, works. I have no doubt that Ted Kennedy felt lifelong guilt; I have no proof of that, except to say that I believe he became a fine example of everything that is good in America, and if that's not adequate tribute to the memory of Ms. Kopechnie, then nothing will satisfy you and your like-minded haters.
I get the fact you hate his policies. I even understand the fact you think he "got away" with something all those years ago. But at the end of our lives, I like to believe we are measured by the totality of what we have contributed to society, not a single incident (and I believe the incident scarred him permanently). So, while Ms. Kopechnie's death was truly tragic, to condemn a man who just died because of something that happened 45 years ago is simply beneath contempt.
But typical of you. You're just an uncivilized boor.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 1:46pm
Thank you Stephen, I could not have said it better, I will miss him, RIP.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/26/2009 @ 2:00pm
"...forget the facts on the ground and attack emotionaly."----Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 12:45pm
Anybody see the Vulcan-like stoicism and un-emotional nature of Maasch's attacks on Ted Kennedy.....I seem to be missing it?
Posted by Mask at 08/26/2009 @ 2:11pm
So, the cure is to bring down the price of the medical care. How does one do that? A good start would be to get rid of the middlemen between the doctor and his patient: i.e. the insurance companies who do nothing but add costs to the process.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 12:05pm
It's not the role of the govt to determine or control the prices of goods and services in this country. that directs us to either totalitarian or marxist/socialist govt, both of which you say you do not want.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 2:16pm
..demanding it be passed because of Kennedys death and we need to honor him? think the left will go that direction to blunt the obvious flaws and collapse of the bill since the majority hate it?
Posted by YourJomamma at 08/26/2009 @ 1:39pm
YJ,
Your implication that the Republicans would do it differently if the shoe were on the other foot shows what a Republican party hack you truly are.
Politics is politics. Sooner or later, even the deaths of politicians become political fodder.
If Ted Kennedy's death becomes part of the debate regarding the single most important issue (by his own admission) that he fought for over his entire political career, I think he would probably say, "Yeah...bring it on."
That's why it's so hypocritical for people like McCain to come out against a government public option; the man has literally been on a government health care plan since his birth a bazillion years ago. Seems to be working fine for him; why not for the rest of us?
And BTW, the majority do NOT hate it; the majority doesn't even know what's in it since:
1. There is no actual bill yet, and
2. The Republican Nutjob Machine has slowed the process of getting the actual facts out there. Facts that raise support every single time they are mentioned; why do you think the nutjobs don't want to discuss the issue, they just want to rant and rave?
Facts kill rightwing schemes every time.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 2:21pm
Yep....Facts kill rightwing schemes every time.
Posted by RainforestMoon at 08/26/2009 @ 3:27pm
Obama and his allies in congress won the 2008 election in no small part by no small margin by voters who agreed. 'The HC system's broken. It's not working for too many of us. Fix it.'
The rising costs of healthcare is going to kill any chance of a sustainable economic recovery unless someone comes up with a solution to bend the cost curve downward.
Have the republicans offered any meaningful bills, scored by the COB, that bends the cost curve downward the past 8 years, or recently?
Posted by RainforestMoon at 08/26/2009 @ 3:45pm
Posted by Mask at 08/26/2009 @ 2:11pm
Funny.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 2:16pm
"It's not the role of the govt to determine or control the prices of goods and services in this country."
<cough>Federal Reserve...<cough>laws against price gouging...<cough>subsidized anything - from education to water to agriculture to zoos...<cough>progressive income taxes...
You know, I'm having a hard time identifying the empirical basis for this claim. By definition, monetary policy is a form of price control - on money, which is the primary instrument in purchasing every good or service.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 4:14pm
It's not the role of the govt to determine or control the prices of goods and services in this country. that directs us to either totalitarian or marxist/socialist govt, both of which you say you do not want.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 2:16pm
You call yourself a realist (I've seen you post it before) yet you deny the reality that the government sets prices all the damn time on almost everything we do?
We subsidize things left and right and if you don't think that's price control, I have a bridge in Arizona to see you.
Larry, I get that you think that anything not controlled by business will lead down the path to socialism. You are obviously scared of socialism. (Not quite sure why because I think, if he were alive today, Jesus would probably be to your left politically...and possibly a socialist...if only through his deeds, not his words) I am sorry that you live such a fearful life, where you think your government wants to control everything you do.
I am not afraid of life, nor am I afraid of death, nor am I afraid of our government, because unlike any other government in the history of mankind, we are a nation Of the People, By the People and For the People. Ultimately, if our nation becomes so unbalanced that the People understand what is REALLY happening (corporate control replacing the will of the People), there WILL be another revolution, and I have to say, I wouldn't want to be on your side if/when it happens. People who advocate for the rich and the status quo tend not to do well during revolutions (see Russian Revolution / American Revolution / French Revolution, etc.).
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 4:21pm
"You call yourself a realist (I've seen you post it before) yet you deny the reality that the government sets prices all the damn time on almost everything we do?
We subsidize things left and right and if you don't think that's price control, I have a bridge in Arizona to see you."
We don't deny unconstitutional government intervention. If it wasn't for government intervention in health care starting under FDR, health care would be availible to virtually every man woman and child in America. Thank God the government never decided that food was a right as well, or we would have the same crisis we have in healthcare only with regard to food.
"<cough>Federal Reserve...<cough>laws against price gouging...<cough>subsidized anything - from education to water to agriculture to zoos...<cough>progressive income taxes... "
All of those regulations are amoral, illegal, and unconstitutional.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/26/2009 @ 4:33pm
"Jesus would probably be to your left politically...and possibly a socialist."
True. Only a morally confused deluded duped left liberal quasi-Socialist could argue we should love our enemies. Yes, the Jews in concentration camps should have loved Hitler, the Kurds should have loved Saddam, ect.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/26/2009 @ 4:39pm
Hmmm...
Sorta on topic, sorta of topic...
The left and right are arguing about health care in the US. Interesting topic normally. As someone who is currently (slightly) ill, very interesting topic.
Let'see which side I like better:
The left: 'we should all pool our resources and have a single payer plan.' OK. What would that mean for me? I would have already been paid in (either via premiums or taxes) and would go to the doctor and get a scrip for anti-biotics.
The right: 'The govt. should stay out of my health care.' OK. So I can just go buy some Augmentin and cure myself. Right? Opps! No. I have to, as mandated by my govt. seek the permission of a stranger, to get my meds. At twice the cost of the meds.
So that leaves me two questions. One for the right and one for both sides.
For the right; Why not go all the way and be totally free? What happened to my birthright to self medicate? Why does the right not go far enough? Why do they want govt. imposed monopoly, instead of a different govt. imposed monopoly?
My question to all is; Why are we even discussing who/how to pay everyones medical bills, before we get them under control?
I just recently had 3 members of my family in the hospital. Why did any insurance pay for $5.00 ibuprofen? (20,000% markup). Or $42.89 saline of the same type/brand my vet sells me for $2.75?
It seems to me the talk about 5%GDP in the 70's and 17%GDP now is blamed on new procedures and old people, instaed of the blatent price gouging it appears to stem from.
Anybody have any opinions on how t fix this, BEFORE we all decide how to pay?
Posted by Malcontent at 08/26/2009 @ 4:39pm
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/26/2009 @ 4:33pm
"If it wasn't for government intervention in health care starting under FDR, health care would be availible to virtually every man woman and child in America."
False.
"Thank God the government never decided that food was a right as well, or we would have the same crisis we have in healthcare only with regard to food."
More than 32 million people live with food insecurity. Want to guess how many of those people don't have health insurance?
"All of those regulations are amoral, illegal, and unconstitutional."
Unfortunately for you, the Supreme Court disagrees.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 5:26pm
<cough>Federal Reserve...<cough>laws against price gouging...<cough>subsidized anything - from education to water to agriculture to zoos...<cough>progressive income taxes...
You know, I'm having a hard time identifying the empirical basis for this claim. By definition, monetary policy is a form of price control - on money, which is the primary instrument in purchasing every good or service.
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 4:14pm
Federal Reserve is not a branch of the govt.
The irrational and evil progressive income tax is not a direct control of pricing. It is an element in determining price in the cost/profit analysis.
Deflating or inflating the dollar to control commerce is not a direct control of pricing. It can directly affect profit or loss, but not as directly into pricing.
I repeat, the govt should have nothing to do with pricing.
I am against all price controls by govt as unconstitutional intrusions into commerce.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 5:29pm
You call yourself a realist (I've seen you post it before) yet you deny the reality that the government sets prices all the damn time on almost everything we do?
People who advocate for the rich and the status quo tend not to do well during revolutions (see Russian Revolution / American Revolution / French Revolution, etc.).
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/26/2009 @ 4:21pm
Most prices are set by the market, not govt. that is the beauty of our system.
I'm against all govt subsidies as unconstitutional.
I am against corporations controlling anyone's life. I have no love of corporations, but I also don't believe them them to be evil as you do.
Like many on the left, you attempt a strawman argument that being against something because you believe it violates the constitution is done out of fear.
Likewise about socialism, it isn't fear of socialism. It's a recognition that socialism limits freedom and it ALWAYS directs people away from G-d and focused on man instead.
And I am 100% positive that Jesus would not be a socialist, since He was not concerned with Human govt. and likewise would not endorse a system that diverts people from worshipping G-d.
If there is any revolution, I would bet that it is against your views, and not mine. I have NEVER advocated for the rich. I advocate for constitutional govt. That is my consistent argument here month after month, year after year.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/26/2009 @ 5:39pm
Posted by Malcontent at 08/26/2009 @ 4:39pm
I guess it doesn't matter WHAT we are paying for...only HOW we pay it.
...kinda like our defense budget.
Posted by Malcontent at 08/26/2009 @ 8:27pm
Posted by srjenkins at 08/26/2009 @ 10:22am:
When you get right down to it, it is a lack of technology and medical knowledge that makes this so intractable. For all we think we know, there is much more we do not know. How long before all the problems are moot? 50 years? 100 years? 200 years? 300? At some point it will happen. When will we be able to replace destroyed spinal chords? Will we just grow them? How about replacing an eye with a real one with a new optical nerve all hooked up and everything or any organ for that matter? Curing or preventing all diseases and cancers (including brain) with simple procedures. Obviously I am talking about true biological replacements not artificial ones. All this IS doable but we just have no idea how. But when we get to that level everything will have changed anyway and we will be worried about other things. In the meantime we must have a medical care system that encourages aggressive research and continuous field trials, something I think may be discouraged by a single payer government controlled system.
Posted by pyeatte at 08/27/2009 @ 01:04am
ohn Jr and JFK? I got news for you.. both were more conservative than Teddy...and my guess is based on THEIR writings..John Jr took Teddy and cousins to the wood shed..and Reagan got his tax and defence ideas from JFK...that both would be conservative today as they never shifted their stances...which puts them squarly in the right of center in todays belief system..not where you sit.
JM, You have your head shoved so far north that it's impossible for you to see the light of day. Reagan got his ideas from Milton Friedman, not JFK.
And JFK Jr. was extremely liberal unlike what you said. One of his last published articles was on how the GOP was involved in voter fraud.
It would serve you well to have a clue about what you are talking about.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2009 @ 07:01am
There was only one disciple who accounted the words (in English) of Jesus on the Cross, which were; "Father, Father, Why Have You Forsaken Me?"
Why does everyone assume he had doubts? You do not know what was in his mind at the time. Perhaps he was asking for another miracle which was not granted, like healthcare.
He did die for the sins of mankind, but it was hearsay that killed him as much as being cruxified. What type of false history will be left for future generations, if they can read at all, after the mercury vaccines and cell phone towers?
Senator Kennedy was a great man and so were the rest of the Kennedy's. You may be able to fool the ones who are too young to remember the hope and the dream of a better and fairer life for all, but you cannot fool those who lived through the times. There has never been since the assassination of Lincoln, such an outpouring of grief as when JFK was killed.
What we have here now is a system of mind controlled double speak directly out of Orwells' 1984, which warned of a fascist controller who erases the truth by speaking the opposite in slogans.
The far right are not going to barter people like car salesmen, while subjugating women to slavery. They are working for Rev. Moon, the drug dealer. It is time to call a spade, a spade.
Health care, education, communication, and free speech are now human rights... as is food, water, clothing and shelter. If no-one wants the public option which comes out of the huge GDP of the Nation, they can pay the high prices of runaway fascism insurance for nothing and private hospitals which charge whatever they want. They also DO whatever they want, such as implant your babies.
Advertised recently on Slate was a book about experiencing a babies' mind like recreation. God!
Posted by femtobeam at 08/27/2009 @ 09:04am