Justice for Oscar Grant

From Rodney King to Sean Bell, recent American history has seen far too many examples of police brutality directed against people (usually men) of color. Rarely though, has there been a more chilling, outrageous, seemingly unnecessary instance of abuse than that of Oscar Grant's killing at the Fruitvale BART station in Oakland, California on New Year's Day.

This video is kind of long and the quality is pretty shoddy but by the end you see an unarmed man lying on the ground being shot at point blank range for absolutely no apparent reason.

Given this evidence, the trigger man, Johannes Mehserle, the BART police officer accused of shooting and killing Grant, was arrested at 6:20 p.m. yesterday on a murder charge in Nevada, where he had fled after quitting his BART job rather than answer investigators' questions. Alameda Country District Attorney Tom Orloff told the Associated Press that he was going for a murder conviction.

"At this point, what I feel the evidence indicates, is an unlawful killing done by an intentional act and from the evidence we have there's nothing that would mitigate that to something lower than a murder," Orloff said at a news conference announcing the charge.

Grant found himself at the Fruitvale BART station after he was pulled off the train along with three other young men who were being detained as BART officers searched for suspects in a fight that started at West Oakland BART. In front of hundreds of BART passengers who were halted from reaching their destinations, the unarmed Grant was told to lay on the BART platform with his hands behind his back. Officer Meherle then pulled out his gun, stood over Grant and shot him in the back where the bullet ricocheted and lodged in his lung.

Following the shooting, according to an excellent report in Alternet, BART police tried to confiscate all the videos taken by witnesses. They failed and three clips videos made it to YouTube, where they were viewed hundreds of thousands of times and eventually picked up and played by the news media, bringing the story national attention.

Within days of the killing a grassroots organization was formed, initially on Facebook, The Coalition Against Police Executions (CAPE), and it organized a peaceful rally and memorial at the Fruitvale station. After the memorial, a splinter group broke away and marched several miles to downtown Oakland, where, in an exhibition of the Join CAPE on Facebook for breaking news and for a bevy of ideas on how you can help the campaign combat police brutality coast to coast.

The Gathering For Justice, an intergeneration civil rights organization founded by Harry Belafonte, is also organizing creative actions of solidarity to ask the country to recognize and address a pandemic of police brutality against young people in America today. For info, visit: www.thegatheringforjustice.org

Finally, Racewire has published some ideas on things you can do right now, to help Grant and his family get justice:

1. Digg the story so the national media is more likely to pick it up.

2. Contact BART Director Carole Ward Allen and demand that the officers involved be taken off duty without pay and charged and fully prosecuted; there be an independent investigation of the shooting that includes a review of training and hiring practices; and BART establish an independent residents' review board for the police. Call her at (510) 464-6095 or email the BART board of directors at boardofdirectors@bart.gov.

3. Call the BART police to complain about the officers' conduct and demand immediate action -- Internal Affairs: Sgt. David Chlebowski, (510) 464-7029, dchlebo@bart.gov; Chief of Police Gary Gee, (510) 464-7022, ggee@bart.gov. Call them toll free at (877) 679-7000 and press the last four digits of the phone number you wish to reach.

Comments (63)

1. You haven't seen the *other* video, which KTVU (channel 2, oakland) aired a week ago. The other video, another cell phone video, was shot by someone who didn't turn away when the officer in question executed Grant. I've seen it, you should.

   It's 100% clear and explicit: the officer who does the shooting is kneeling on Grant's back, while another officer stands over Grant looking down. The shooter slowly get up off Grant, who is handcuffed, docile, and lying face down on the ground. Still straddling Grant, as the shooter rises up, he unholsters his pistol, and slowly pulls it out. He points at Grant's back, as Grant lies docile on the ground, and then shoots him through the back at point blank range. The video is 100% clear. It was your basic police execution.

   Posted by syfriendly at 01/14/2009 @ 5:36pm

2. Mr. Rothberg, the clumsy idiot has already been charged with murder and is in custody.

   Posted by Benchrest at 01/14/2009 @ 5:39pm

3. "clumsy idiot"

   Pretty clumsy use of words.

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 5:43pm

4. Yes, Bench, I note that. And pls call me Peter.

   SY -- I had trouble finding that video in a format that I can embed but pls send a link if you have one.

   Posted by Peter Rothberg at 01/14/2009 @ 5:47pm

5. Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 5:43pm

   Really b kool? I've seen the GOOD video and it is not an intentional shooting, just another clueless moron with a weapon he doesn't know how to use.

   That being said, I'm all for the strictest punishment that can be given due to the results of his absolute incompetence.

   Posted by Benchrest at 01/14/2009 @ 5:59pm

6. VIDEO FOR MR. ROTHBERG:

   I suspect it is linkable - http://www.ktvu.com/video/18409133/index.html

   Posted by syfriendly at 01/14/2009 @ 6:25pm

7. I did not review the entire thing, but the first 20 seconds or so was assuredly the first 20 seconds of the video I saw on KTVU. They appear to have cleaned it up and placed a circle on the display around the "action".

   Posted by syfriendly at 01/14/2009 @ 6:27pm

8. Posted by comanchenation at 01/14/2009 @ 6:09pm

   For once in a blue moon we agree on something. The man was arrested. Police don't execute people on a daily basis so it is not really needed to push this issue. The police officer is being brought to justice for his action. We will see what the courts have to say but there is no real need to push this issue. If the police officer had been let go then I would agree with that this issue needs to be pushed but the has already been arrested.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 01/14/2009 @ 6:29pm

9. I watched the video that actually shows the cop firing - it is not entirely clear he shot with the intent to kill him. It's not as if the guy was lying quietly on the ground and the cop walked up from somewhere else and blasted him.

   Grant was resisting having cuffs placed on him, there's plenty of evidence of that in the video. Why the cop had to pull his gun? Not so sure he needed to. There was a big crowd, and very loud and rowdy. So, again, it's not like Grant's in the middle of nowhere, or the cops are surrounding him essentially at peace and not having to worry about a {potentially} unruly crowd. Of course, that perhaps speaks to the wisdom of not drawing a weapon unless it's necessary (I have no clue whether even drawing the gun in this situation could be viewed a violation of his department's rules, etc.--but even someone resisting handcuffs, is there a need to draw the gun?, and what about the potential for so many witnesses to get hurt if it goes off unintentionally.)

   The following is clearly a subjective judgment: but it didn't look to me like the cop reacted like he knew he was going to shoot him, not that he didn't know he had pulled his gun, not saying that, but it may have been an accidental squeezing of the trigger. The cop's reaction-he seemed to jump back a little-makes it seem to me that he may not have intended to shoot. Plus - why would he shoot to kill in front of scores of witnesses?

   That the cop ran could possibly undo any potential reasonable doubt from the video, but he will not be convicted of intentional murder, in my opinion.

   The city will lose a civil lawsuit though--that's a lock.

   .

   Posted by urmygyro at 01/14/2009 @ 7:19pm

10. Really b kool? I've seen the GOOD video and it is not an intentional shooting, just another clueless moron with a weapon he doesn't know how to use.

    ~"Benchrest" @ 5:59pm

    Glad to know that you're so self assured, Bench.

    I just watched the footage myself, and even if the image was a bit grainy the actions of the officer in question defy reasonable explanation.

    Essentially, you have a few kids who have apparently been unruly but are quite clearly under the control of at least three officers on the scene. No evidence of a lethal threat is apparent, and one officer rises from the prostrate, face down victim, draws his weapon and fires.

    The best thing that can be said here is thanks to the two bystanders for filming the scene.

    I have no idea what was going through the officer's head who fired the shot, but discipline and professionalism were obviously not present, and most importantly his weapon should have remained holstered.

    Case closed.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 7:33pm

11. Lesson, don't change the trigger pull spring from 4#s to 2#s, you will regret it!

    Posted by comanchenation at 01/14/2009 @ 8:03pm

    What does that mean, "4#s to 2#s"?

    Also - your tone is quite disrespectful to the dead. Surely if this happened to someone you know you wouldn't be so callous.

    Posted by urmygyro at 01/14/2009 @ 8:16pm

12. Posted by comanchenation @ 8:03pm

    Um.......right, "Commanche".

    I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that any big city police force probably isn't going to legally allow their officers to possess a service weapon with a 2 lb trigger pull, dipshit.

    Next.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 8:21pm

13. "Also - your tone is quite disrespectful to the dead. Surely if this happened to someone you know you wouldn't be so callous."

    ~urmygyro

    I usually don't give "Commanche" --aka Rio Bravo-- the time of day, but I'm annoyed by him right now, myself. And callous describes him quite well any pretty much any day.

    Best to ignore the cretin.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 8:25pm

14. Curious why comanche/RIO is still on this thread?

    He seeems to agree in the travesty of the situation....but seems to hope to draw it away into another topic.

    Posted by Mask at 01/14/2009 @ 8:55pm

15. >> DEMAND IMMEDIATE ACTION<< says Peter Rothenberg.

    When has he demanded action against the deamon responsible, year after year, for 9/10 of the prodigious slaughter of blacks in this nation?

    A white police officer, already apprehended, stirs Peter's conscience and drives him to demand immediate protests, but never a murmer about the annual black tsunami crushing black lives by the tens of thousands!

    What an ignoble, empty headed, PC flunky, this craven and wretched Rothenberg.

    In Oakland blacks are killed ten time more often than other ethnicities, and almost always by other blacks.

    According to James Alan Fox, professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University, since 2002 the number of young black perpetrators increased 31% and of black victims by 43%. There were 54% more black victims of of gunshots and 47% more young black male shooters.

    Deduct from the tens of thousands of blacks murdered since 2002 the victims of white policemen and the total would not be scratched. Disarm all white police and the black homicide rate would not fall, it would almost certainly rise.

    When David Dinkins became NYC mayor the annual homicide rate shot up to over 2200. When Rudy Mussolini took over it fell to below a thousand. By dealing with reality Guiliani saved thousands of black lives, whereas the dapper Dinkins' and his sappy PC killed thousands.

    But the empty headed Rothberg's and the entire rotten Naton crowd doesn't care. Displaying its phony virtue and moralistic primping and preening is its priority.

    You guys have blood on your hands. You are responsible for that slaughter, because you mask and downplay it in favor of tearing your hair out when a white policeman occasionally goes berserk.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/14/2009 @ 9:06pm

16. demon

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/14/2009 @ 9:13pm

17. Posted by comanchenation at 01/14/2009 @ 9:03pm

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/14/2009 @ 9:06pm

    See,comanche/RIO....Hugo is taking the standard tact of a right-winger in the face of police malfeasance...

    he's trying to change the subject.

    Try to get upto speed, you old cowboy you.

    Posted by Mask at 01/14/2009 @ 9:26pm

18. A fine little collection of demons here tonight, indeed.

    Enjoyed the show, kids.

    P.S.

    BS River, I'm not that hard to track down --a lot easier than you were, in any case. Go ahead and seek me out, bluster boy.

    And tell me. Precisely what weight were those reduced trigger pulls you referred to above?

    Not 2 lbs I can assure you.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 9:29pm

19. Rio Bluster,

    Not that it's necessary to add here, but for clarity we are referring to the first shot on a Glock or typical double action semi-auto police issue service weapon.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 9:33pm

20. 626 Packard St Ann Arbor, MI

    See you soon I hope.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 9:50pm

21. calm down, folks.

    y'all need to watch less t.v........

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/14/2009 @ 9:51pm

22. Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 9:50pm

    I can't believe you frickin did that.

    Posted by Benchrest at 01/14/2009 @ 10:02pm

23. <i>Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 9:50pm </i>

    1) I second Benchrest; whaaaa?

    2) I hope none of your friends on this board are Ohio State fans :D

    Posted by Thrawn at 01/14/2009 @ 10:11pm

24. HP--that's exciting stuff. Here I was thinking that no black people ever go to jail.

    Posted by onthehelm at 01/14/2009 @ 10:13pm

25. i thought you lived in grand rapids...

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/14/2009 @ 10:24pm

26. Piruvano, put a sock in it please. Before you attack Pete Rothberg for doing his job (he's a journalist and so he reports breaking stories, and he is ahead of the curve on this one, vis a vis the MSM, which is exactly where he should be) ...

    Maybe you'd care to share with us some of your own, personal efforts to stem the tide of violence in inner city Oakland? Because we'd sure love to help out if you can tell us just exactly what YOU've done lately. And let me give you a hint, launching hateful, name-calling tirades against journalists doesn't count.

    I'm just saying. I taught at a title one school for a number of years. I KNOW Oakland. Troubled though my city may be, throwing a hissy fit over Peter Rothberg's alleged callous disregard for the level of background violence isn't going to help anyone one damn bit.

    go volunteer at the YMCA. or your local high school. or something.

    Posted by canaro71 at 01/14/2009 @ 10:25pm

27. Pirovano: I don't recall Mr. Rothberg indicating that black criminals who murder people shouldn't go to jail. And I can't for the life of me figure out why it is that, because most young black men who are murdered are murdered by other young black men (this is a different topic entirely), a police execution doesn't deserve broad public outrage. Police violence is a very serious issue when it is allowed to fester. This nation has a major and still near-term history of regional police agencies truly oppressing people in particular minorities. Even without the racial element, however, a police execution is a very serious issue. The idea with police is that we cede our own control over deadly force to them to become safer, not to become subjects of murderous local police. See: Latin America, Russia for examples of what happens in that case.

    Posted by syfriendly at 01/14/2009 @ 10:53pm

28. I can't believe you frickin did that.

    ~Benchrest @ 10:02pm

    1) I second Benchrest; whaaaa?

    2) I hope none of your friends on this board are Ohio State fans :D

    ~Thrawn @ 10:11pm

    Why not add a little spice to this little space!

    ;-)

    Just testin' "Comanche's" trackin' skills. Trade some fresh blankets and whiskey, Bravo, for peyote?

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/14/2009 @ 11:00pm

29. rio,

    you speak numu tekwapu?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/14/2009 @ 11:40pm

30. we've got osage orange here. great for bows.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/15/2009 @ 01:26am

31. "you speak numu tekwapu?"

    ~fz

    Comanche barely speaks taibo tekwapu, but at least he's a bit more interesting a character thanks to your question, frosty.

    Time to seek greater understanding, "Comanche". Done any mescaline before?

    It might help. It couldn't hurt.

    P.S. Meet me in "Ann Arbor" ;-) on Hash Bash day this spring and maybe we can smoke a peace pipe, dude. Or pass the peyote better yet.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/15/2009 @ 02:31am

32. I wonder if COmmanche and Huggy would "feel" different if the trigger man had a Quran in his pocket.

    BKOOL- care to hA

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 07:31am

33. woops, anyhoo...

    BKOOL-lunch at Ari-Rang one day? Next to Outback on A2-Saline. mmmmm, tasty .

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 07:34am

34. BTW, Commanche it is almost time for you to report to White Man Reservation for Marxist re-education. You may expect the same treatment that Commanches received at the hands of the US govt, so no whinin'. All treaties are subject to the whims of a Majik Negro named Hussein.

    BOO!

    So, I guess what the cons are saying here is that the gun killed, not the person? But...that is not what their bumper stickers tell us. ahhh, another neo-conumdrum

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 07:56am

35. This is a disgrace, a pure case of authority gone wild!! I don't know what happens to people who suddenly put on a uniform and for some reason they think they are God!!! It happens in all walks of life, nurses/doctors killing patients, priests molesting children and police shooting and abusing those who are already being held down/handcuffed!!! Society is sad enough already without these folks in "so called authority" adding to the evil madness already out there. Time for this kind of thing to be brought under control and anyone severely punished by jail time if necessary or fired, this can't continue.

    Posted by Caj at 01/15/2009 @ 09:06am

36. What an ignoble, empty headed, PC flunky, this craven and wretched Rothenberg.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/14/2009 @ 9:06pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    jeez, hugo...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/15/2009 @ 10:45am

37. What happened to the good old days when they took you to a darkened place and beat you. now they shoot you in front of witnesses. A bit brazen, huh? The officer should never have unholstered his gun. No need to since the teenager was handcuffed and on the ground. I am glad Peter wrote this article. I had heard about the rioting and that there was a shooting but I never heard any details. Thanks peter.

    Posted by k330k at 01/15/2009 @ 11:57am

38. What an ignoble, empty headed, PC flunky, this craven and wretched Hugo Pirovano. Posted by Hugo Pirovano at 01/14/2009 @ 9:06pm | ignore this

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/15/2009 @ 12:17pm

39. BTW, didn't anybody else catch this from HAPPY?

    "Every year, in every BIG city, and some not-so-big cities, a handful of questionable police shootings occur...

    Why the Left raise such a stink?"----Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/14/2009 @ 11:19pm

    Apparently there are "acceptable losses" in American law enforcement. I suppose that's the domestic version of "collateral damage", huh?

    Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 12:58pm

40. syfriendly at 10:53pm said:

    >> I can't for the life of me figure out why... a police execution doesn't deserve broad public outrage. Police violence is a very serious issue<<

    You two faced phony.

    If the police officer where black and the victim black would there be riots in the streets?Would Rothenberg demand public protests? Would you pontificate on the seriousness of police crime?

    You would say, our system believes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. While the criminal justice system is diligently pursuing the matter, there is nothing to protest. It is outrageous to prejudge and incite people in such a situation.

    Instead, though perpetrator is in custody, the night streets are ablaze with cars and shops being looted by louts who thrive on the law's failures. And you can't understand what is wrong with public outrage.

    You moral pretzel.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:05pm

41. I meant to write, if the police officer had been black and Grant white.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:07pm

42. only other racist morons would defned this in any way, shape or form. He's gonna get his ass kicked hard in jail - lucky if he even make sit out alive.

    Posted by rmjlattanzi at 01/15/2009 @ 3:10pm

43. canaro71 at 10:25pm said:

    >> Before you attack Pete Rothberg for doing his job (he's a journalist and so he reports breaking stories, and he is ahead of the curve on this one)<<

    Breaking story? You driveling idiot. The Grant killing happened on New Year's Eve. It has been all over the papers for weeks. The dregs of humanity have been lighting up Oakland nights. The owners of the shops being looted and cars being burned had nothing to do with Grant's death and the hoodlums know it. But Rothenberg gleefully cheers on this Protest. His "journalism" is demagogy, it is distorting reality, misleading ignoramuses like you, and diverting attention from the real problem.

    He and you are the reason this catastrophe has not been corralled. You use those deaths to blame "the system". Black homicides interest the Nation crowd for its political agenda. You ideologues have no actual interest in seeing black deaths reduced; that would mean controlling black criminality. The Nation goes to bat for black killers and forgets about their victims. Unless the victims were killed by white police. Rothenberg and friends are interested in standing on top of a hill of black corpses, and beating their chest to discant on their own virtue. Their rests their double standard, their racism, which slanders the truth as immoral, keeps black communities at the mercy of youthful wolves, and of homicide rates ten fold that of other ethnicities.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:13pm

44. Mask at 01/14/2009 @ 9:26pm

    >> he's trying to change the subject. <<

    The subject is the murder of blacks, anger at the murder of blacks.

    They are being killed by the tens of thousands. That l bloodbath compares to our casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam .

    But you and Rothenberg are tearing your hair out over the tiniest aspect, deaths caused by white policemen.

    Who is changing the subject, you craven moron?!

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:18pm

45. But, HUGGY, the victim WAS black, the "cop" IS white.

    LA has a history, this is not happening in a vacuum. Does it justify rioting? I don't think so, but like I told MAASCH, you were quick to attack Iraq for the sins of AQ, maybe you should check the log in your eye too. If you can overreact, why can't others?

    -------

    Thining about running over to B-KOOLS place and standing on the porch screaming "Satans Favorite Daughter!!! Kill, grrr, grrrr Demoncrats...Muslimss!!!!

    Preciousss, my precioussss Book of Hypocrisy....grrrr"

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 3:28pm

46. Who thinks that the victims family considers this a "tiny aspect"?

    the same people that excused the shooting of the innocent Brazilian man by the Brits last year?

    xtian ethos on display?

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 3:30pm

47. This video disgusts me. Even more after I realized that it occured at the Bart station one block away from my apartment in east oakland. The one i would take to and from work everyday. This just fuels the distrust people have of those that are meant to protect them. If i was still in oakland, i'd be protesting like everyone else. But i guess e-mails will have to do. PLEASE take some sort of action yourselves.

    THERE WERE alot of rowdy people ON the train. They were obviously reacting to the individuals being tazered. After watching the videoes up on youtube a couple of times, it seems to me that the officers had the situation well under control. There were hardly any witnesses on the platform, they had all been confined to the trains. While Grant did seem to be struggling when he was placed on his belly, never did he put his hands on any of the officers.

    I was just as appalled to see the officers trying to obstruct the view of witnesses just before the shooting. I'm not saying that they knew what was going to happen, but citizens have a right to observe plice actions as long as they are not in the way. I have personally witnessed San Francisco officers trying to obstruct witnesses views when roughing up a young man who was already handcuffed and not resisting. His brother, who was pleading with the officers to stop beating him, was shoved violently clear across the street.

    Maybe bay area police need better training. Maybe bay area residents should just run in the other direction when the police come their way. Listening to instructions from officers is no guarantee you will not be beaten or worse.

    Posted by poetlost at 01/15/2009 @ 3:38pm

48. This video disgusts me. Even more after I realized that it occured at the Bart station one block away from my apartment in east oakland. The one i would take to and from work everyday. This just fuels the distrust people have of those that are meant to protect them. If i was still in oakland, i'd be protesting like everyone else. But i guess e-mails will have to do. PLEASE take some sort of action yourselves.

    THERE WERE alot of rowdy people ON the train. They were obviously reacting to the individuals being tazered. After watching the videoes up on youtube a couple of times, it seems to me that the officers had the situation well under control. There were hardly any witnesses on the platform, they had all been confined to the trains. While Grant did seem to be struggling when he was placed on his belly, never did he put his hands on any of the officers.

    I was just as appalled to see the officers trying to obstruct the view of witnesses just before the shooting. I'm not saying that they knew what was going to happen, but citizens have a right to observe plice actions as long as they are not in the way. I have personally witnessed San Francisco officers trying to obstruct witnesses views when roughing up a young man who was already handcuffed and not resisting. His brother, who was pleading with the officers to stop beating him, was shoved violently clear across the street.

    Maybe bay area police need better training. Maybe bay area residents should just run in the other direction when the police come their way. Listening to instructions from officers is no guarantee you will not be beaten or worse.

    Posted by poetlost at 01/15/2009 @ 3:39pm

49. I meant to write, if the police officer had been black and Grant white.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:07pm

    It's all immaterial what color anyone was, police or victim...the action was totally unnecessary and disgraceful. Let's be honest though, a good majority of these kinds of actions are taken against blacks. What makes some police feel because they put on a uniform they now have the power of God on their side and can commit all manner of things and in so many cases get away with it. They are here to defend the people not go around beating and shooting willy nilly because they can!!! When one group seem continually in the fore front for these kind of acts is there any wonder that the community rebel, it's called injustice and that is there response to it. Does it solve anything maybe not but it does make the point that something is still drastically wrong with our form of justice!!!

    Posted by Caj at 01/15/2009 @ 3:41pm

50. Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/15/2009 @ 3:18pm

    No, Hugo, you want to MAKE that the subject and come up with "alternative scenarios" (black cop/white victim)...because it changes the subject.

    Because as a knee-jerk right-winger, you cannot abide (A) anything that sounds "anti-cop" (which, despite what you think, BAD COPS are more "anti-cop" than anything)

    and (B) you have to take up a contrary position to ANYTHING anybody writes at "The Nation" or ANYTHING some "durn soft-on-crime liberal" says or writes.

    Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 4:17pm

51. The people need to calm down. Oh, who knows; maybe he had it coming. The courts will deal with this and the cops will be prosecuted or whatever.

    Posted by woodyee at 01/15/2009 @ 8:41pm

52. The people need to calm down. Oh, who knows; maybe he had it coming

    Posted by woodyee at 01/15/2009

    That is exactly the kind of response you get from a jerk...how would it be for you had the guy been white! I guess that would make the whole story more compelling and you answer would not be as flippant and disgusting.

    Posted by Caj at 01/15/2009 @ 9:55pm

53. or whatever. Posted by woodyee at 01/15/2009 @ 8:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    thanks for your contribution

    Posted by emile duBois at 01/15/2009 @ 10:27pm

54. Posted by woodyee at 01/15/2009 @ 8:41pm

    What IS the "had it coming" excuse for shooting a guy in the back, who's face down on the ground not moving?

    I forget?

    Posted by Mask at 01/16/2009 @ 09:03am

55. woodyee is still upset over the damage done to his Tickle Me Elmo Doll, and the constant refusal of the Armed Services to accept him into their socialist collectivism.

    Poor Woodyee.

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/16/2009 @ 10:35am

56. Another amusing thing from this story is that the cons are DEFENDING a government employee and union member!

    But, the guy had a uniform on, so he must be forgiven or worshiped.

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/16/2009 @ 10:40am

57. Posted by crabwalk at 01/16/2009 @ 10:40am

    Oh, imagine if Johannes Mehserle had been in the EPA, and declared some of Oscar Grant's land a wetland and not let him build on it!

    THEN, Hugo and HAPP would be outraged!

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 01/16/2009 @ 12:17pm

58. Check out for yourself at blackcoptermedia.com.

    Posted by thesid at 01/16/2009 @ 2:26pm

59. Mask at 4:17pm said:

    >> as a knee-jerk right-winger, you cannot abide (A) anything that sounds "anti-cop" (which, despite what you think, BAD COPS are more "anti-cop" than anything)<<

    You don't know my feelings on most subjects, all you know is labels and replying with your label's stock ammunition. An argument that looks at the realities behind the labels, behind the blood and guts pictures, whether of a cop shooting a helpless man in cold blood in Oakland or IDF bombs killing women and children in Gaza, is beyond you.

    THE NATION's mob reaction shows just what a negative, cynical and malicious force it is. And you join the crowd instead of saying, the issue is not so simple, not so black and white. Instead you are in the thick of this crowd of fools, because you are share its craving , you too are hungry to show your virtue, how morally superior you are, as against the base and wicked who don't join a simpleton like Rothenberg.

    There used to be the phenomenon of white trash, losers who in their inferiority and craving to feel superior to someone, were the biggest racists. Brandishing one's color as proof of superiority is no longer possible, but the craving by the biggest fools and losers of society, for someone to look down on, remains. That is why guys like you join breast beating mobs of the virtuous enraged (and delighted) by wicked right wingers like me who don't explode in rage on cue when a white cop goes berserk.

    You accuse me of a knee jerk reaction. You don't realize, you are the new racists, the new cheap and sappy bigots avid to display a cheap superiority and to strut in comforting reassurance that you have it all over base creatures like me.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/16/2009 @ 4:27pm

60. canaro71 at 10:25pm said:

    >> Before you attack Pete Rothberg for doing his job (he's a journalist and so he reports breaking stories, and he is ahead of the curve on this one, vis a vis the MSM, which is exactly where he should be) ...

    Breaking story? The Grant killing happened on New Year's Eve. It has been all over the papers for weeks. The dregs of humanity have been lighting up Oakland nights, burning and looting shops and cars. Their owners had nothing to do with Grant's death and the hoodlums know it. And so does Rothenberg, but he gleefully cheers on this Protest. His "journalism" is demagogy, it is distorting reality, misleading ignoramuses like you, and diverting attention from the real problem.

    He and you are the reason this catastrophe has not been corralled. You use those deaths to blame "the system". Black homicides interest the Nation crowd for its political agenda. It has no actual interest in seeing black deaths reduced; that would mean controlling black criminality. The Nation goes to bat for black killers and forgets about their victims. Unless the victims were killed by "by the pigs.". Rothenberg and friends are interested in standing on top of the black corpses, and beating their chest to discant on their own virtue. Their lies, their double standard, their racism, which slanders the truth as immoral, keeps black communities at the mercy of youthful wolves and of homicide rates ten fold that of other ethnicities.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/16/2009 @ 4:44pm

61. crabwalk at 01/15/2009 @ 3:28pm said:

    >> the victim WAS black, the "cop" IS white. <<

    Get this into your soft shell. Had the victim been white and the cop black there would be no riots. Rothenberg would have said everyone is innocent until proven guilty, that goes for black cops too. You know that is true.

    As to:

    >>LA has a history, this is not happening in a vacuum. <<

    Oakland is 340 miles to the north of LA, an hours flight away, near San Francisco.

    You don't know this country, or reality when you equate riots in Oakland with invading Iraq.

    Their power of locomotion is not the only thing you share with crustaceans.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/16/2009 @ 4:49pm

62. Caj at 01/15/2009 @ 3:41pm said:

    >> It's all immaterial what color anyone was, police or victim...the action was totally unnecessary and disgraceful.<<

    It is not immaterial. That you insists on what you know perfectly well is not true, makes my point. You and your friends are endless liars, dishonest to the core.

    That police officers can turn out to be criminals and sadists and rotten human beings is not news. They are after all ordinary people recruited out of the general population. Most sociopaths are weeded out, but it is inevitable that a few remain in uniform. And invariably too, occasionally, a normal cop, a decent man will go nuts, for the very same reason disciplined soldiers, under pressure, exposed to grim situations, sometimes break and go haywire.

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 01/16/2009 @ 4:55pm

63. can't let hugo have the last word.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2009 @ 5:40pm