Act Now!

Molly's Pledge

posted by Peter Rothberg on 01/30/2007 @ 5:35pm

Read John Nichols' tribute to Molly Ivins, who died on wednesday.

Many Nation readers know that the inimitable, invaluable, iconoclastic columnist Molly Ivins has been battling cancer. It started in her breasts and now has spread throughout her body. This past weekend she was back in the hospital for the third time since the disease was first diagnosed in 1999.

In the second-to-last syndicated column she's been able to write she declared herself on an "old-fashioned newspaper campaign" and vowed to use every column she had to "write about this war until we find some way to end it."

But since then she's only managed to write one more column. That one ran on January 11 and opposed President Bush's proposed "surge" escalation of the war. In strong language -- even for a writer famous for plain talk -- Ivins stated: "We are the people who run this country. We are the deciders. And every single day, every single one of us needs to step outside and take some action to help stop this war."

At the Washington peace march this past Saturday, which Ivins had promoted in her latest column, actor Sean Penn echoed her refrain: "We are the deciders" to the delight of tens of thousands of protesters.

And now, with Ivins too sick to write, the rest of us will have to carry her "old-fashioned newspaper campaign" forward.

With that in mind, the Berkeley Daily Planet is hereby launching what it is calling the "Molly Ivins Festschrift." As executive editor Becky O'Malley wrote in today's edition:

"A festschrift is defined by Merriam-Webster as "a volume of writings by different authors presented as a tribute or memorial especially to a scholar." Academics are wont to create festschrifts on the occasion of a revered colleague's sixtieth birthday, for example. Molly's already sixty-two, but no time like the present to catch up with what we should have done two years ago. And we might call it festschrift if we could reliably remember how to spell or pronounce that German word, but let's just call it the Molly Ivins Tribute Project."

O'Malley's idea is that Ivins' colleagues in the journalism world should take over and intensify her campaign to make every effort to end the war. "It would be nice," O'Malley adds, "if a lot of these columns could be funny, since skewering serious subjects with humor is what Molly does best, but that's not required." Who, after all, can write about serious subjects as amusingly as Ivins without trivializing them?

The Berkeley Daily Planet has created a special mailbox to receive the offerings. Please send submissions to tribute@berkeleydailyplanet.com. The paper will publish them as they come in at berkeleydailyplanet.com. The best ones will also be published in the paper's Tuesday and Friday print editions. The suggested length is 600 to 800 words. Please also forward this call for contributions to any columnists you read regularly, and to any publications which might circulate the results or highlight the project.

Comments (143)

  1. death is quite the bummer...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/30/2007 @ 6:26pm

  2. they are going to get flooded with entries...every tom dick and ibbleblibble who fancies himself a clever pontificant will jump in on this one...its like the settlement of oklahoma by us whiteys...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/30/2007 @ 6:30pm

  3. Molly Ivens was one of the first to speak truth to power. she has earned the gratitude of her fellow americans.we have a saying:" Sowas wie Bush lebt und Ivens muss sterben.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/30/2007 @ 6:44pm

  4. Sowas wie Bush lebt und Ivens muss sterben.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 01/30/2007 @ 6:44pm

    "so as a bushy effed up an ivens must stir"?

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/30/2007 @ 7:14pm

  5. no, Bush gets to live and Ivens must die.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/30/2007 @ 8:26pm

  6. a cosmic injustice.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/30/2007 @ 8:26pm

  7. Best of luck to Ms Ivins and her family.

    Posted by Mask at 01/30/2007 @ 8:37pm

  8. Yes, it sucks that Molly Ivens has cancer.

    Just like it sucks that she has chosen to forget that congress already gave President Bush authority to invade Iraq, while the constitution gives him the right to conduct the war as he sees fit.

    But, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

    Molly has crossed the line, officially, between journalism and activism. Personally, I would have liked to remember her as a journalist, even one with whom I most often disagreed. Alas, it is not to be.

    Posted by davebarlett at 01/30/2007 @ 8:45pm

  9. Molly has crossed the line, officially, between journalism and activism.

    what's wrong with that?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/30/2007 @ 10:07pm

  10. while the constitution gives him the right to conduct the war as he sees fit.

    the jury is still out on that. remember advise and consent. congress, and the american people for that matter, have a role to play in both peace and war. Bush is NOT the commander in chief of the nation. not in peace, and not in war. he is merely the president, and a piss poor one at that.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/30/2007 @ 10:11pm

  11. Best Wishes to Ms Ivins and her family.

    All our prayers

    Posted by CPT at 01/30/2007 @ 10:40pm

  12. I have not heard about Molly's condition, and want to thank you for alerting me. I was wondering why she had not posted recently...I have been reading her columns for only the last 7 or 8 years, but I don't believe there is one that I don't totally agree with. She's the ONLY writer I can say that about, she's uncanny, one-of-a-kind. And DaveBarlett, you're an asshole! If EVER there was a time when this country needed activists, IT IS NOW. Molly understands that, pull your head out, DUDE. Peace be on her, and her family. And Thanks Molly, you're always an inspiration.

    Posted by Cosmic Debris at 01/31/2007 @ 01:41am

  13. Molly has crossed the line, officially, between journalism and activism. what's wrong with that?

    If you're an activist, nothing.

    If you're a journalist...

    Posted by DrewHarris at 01/31/2007 @ 03:42am

  14. It is Molly Ivins who wrote that "Texas is the national laboratory for bad government." How tragic for the US and the world that so many gullible American voters and a loaded Supreme Court transplanted that "national laboratory for bad government" to Washington, D.C. and the Oval Office. May Molly live long in grateful memory while Bush and his cabal fade from memory in ignominy.

    Posted by DBSweden at 01/31/2007 @ 05:11am

  15. Molly has crossed the line, officially, between journalism and activism. Personally, I would have liked to remember her as a journalist, even one with whom I most often disagreed. Alas, it is not to be.

    Posted by DAVEBARLETT 01/30/2007 @ 8:45pm

    What sanctimonious drivel! Learn some history and find out that journalism used to have a vital role of reporting the truth and exposing corruption and hypocrisy. Without "activist" journalists (my how the lemmings like that adjective), your food would still be crawling with maggots and human waste, and Nixon would only be remembered for his success with China.

    But don't take my word for it:

    "No government ought to be without censors, and where the press is free, no one ever will. If virtuous, it need not fear the fair operation of attack and defence. Nature has given to man no other means of sifting out the truth whether in religion, law or politics. I think it as honorable to the government neither to know nor notice its sycophants or censors, as it would be undignified and criminal to pamper the former and persecute the latter." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1792.

    Bless Molly Ivins' spirit, her grace, her truth, her will, her humor, her intelligence, and her wit. The world will lose a valuable voice when she is gone.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 08:36am

  16. And for the lemmings to even comment on this topic, when Molly Ivins wrote her views in op-ed pieces, and Fox News broadcasts their rhetoric and propaganda as "news" - the hypocisy is astounding (but not unexpected)!

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 08:38am

  17. Here's some on a free press:

    "Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it." --Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1786.

    "I am... for freedom of the press, and against all violations of the Constitution to silence by force and not by reason the complaints or criticisms, just or unjust, of our citizens against the conduct of their agents." --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799.

    In 1946, Truman had called freedom of the press "one of the freedoms for which we were fighting and essential to our democratic way of life."

    Ida Tarbell (exposes the Standard Oil monopoly), Lincoln Steffens (exposed political coruption at the local, state and federal levels), George Seldes (exposed complicity of press in keeping the truth about smiking from the public; was one of the first to demand ethics in journalism), Upton Sinclair (work directly led to the Food and Drud Adminstration, and exposed the practices that big business uses on a daily basis without oversight and regulations).

    "Activists" journalists all - and great Americans. Molly Ivins should be praised as following in their footsteps, but because she pokes the powerful in the eye, and the powerful are the ones running the media (despite the blatantly inappropriate but hugely successful misnomer "liberal media"), she is condemned by some, ignored by others, but admired by most who believe in speaking the truth to power.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 08:56am

  18. Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/31/2007 @ 12:02am

    quite true, RIO. i was just thinking about that scene from that tom cruise flick where the settlers race to make claims...most of whom were my fellow whiteys...

    by the way, as a whitey i reserve the right to refer to myself and my fellow whiteys as "whitey(s)", and myself and some old college pals as "white trash all stars"...har har...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 09:30am

  19. Posted by TURK33 01/31/2007 @ 08:56am

    Yes, TURK, but ...'lest we forget....it also means people like Jayson Blair, Judith Miller, Hearst & Pulitzer pushing the Spanish-American War, Dan Rather's "Memo-gate", or Fox News (to give equal time to both sides).

    Not a call for less press freedom, just an acknowledgment that it's not all pure as the driven snow either.

    Posted by Mask at 01/31/2007 @ 09:30am

  20. i hate to admit it but i've never read molly...almost picked up one of her books half a dozen times, but always ended up going with jim hightower or al franken or when feeling serious, david brock...

    reccomendations in the ivins section anyone?

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 09:32am

  21. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 01/31/2007 @ 09:32am

    All the books I've read by her are compilations of her newspaper columns. Shrub is one of my favorites, but I've never read anything by her that didn't make me laugh.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 09:38am

  22. reccomendations in the ivins section anyone?

    Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 01/31/2007 @ 09:32am | ignore this person

    I have only read Ivens' columns. I imagine her back catalogue is easily available.

    Maureen Dowd is carrying the torch now, as Ivens has then.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/31/2007 @ 09:58am

  23. Maureen Dowd is carrying the torch now, as Ivens has then.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 01/31/2007 @ 09:58am

    Maureen Dowd?!?!?!?

    From "The Nation"--

    emerging writers | posted November 21, 2006 (web only) MoDo, Deconstructed by Simon Maxwell Apter

    subject to Debate | posted November 10, 2005 (November 28, 2005 issue) The World According to Dowd by Katha Pollitt

    Posted by Mask at 01/31/2007 @ 10:09am

  24. "reccomendations in the ivins section anyone?"

    Her entire body of work.

    She dedicated most of her later career to enlightening us about the emperor's complete lack of wardrobe. She did so with a mostly civil, but nonetheless razor-sharp wit.

    It would be sycophantic to agree with everything the gal writes, but few could resist being entertained by her observations. Our democracy is well-served by smart-asses like the outspoken Ms. Ivins, particularly the ones willing to "cross the line".

    Posted by drhammer at 01/31/2007 @ 10:15am

  25. Hopefully, she'll lose the hatred in her heart and live the rest of her days in peace.

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 10:55am

  26. Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 10:55am

    a sentiment that applies to even the most saintly of us...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 11:30am

  27. "Hopefully, she'll lose the hatred in her heart and live the rest of her days in peace."

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 10:55am

    I've been reading Molly Ivins for years, and I am confident that she not only bears no hatred, but will go to her reward with such love and humor that she can even laugh at fucksticks who display that kind of ignorance.

    Posted by drhammer at 01/31/2007 @ 11:32am

  28. Hopefully, she'll lose the hatred in her heart and live the rest of her days in peace.

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 10:55am

    Woodyee, you're talking about two things your posts have shown you know nothing about, giving up hateful ideas, and peace.

    Practice what you preach. Stop hating the truth, and stop supporting administrations that do everything they can to prevent peace.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 11:33am

  29. Turk - You don't know me, so stop acting like you do. I guess you're filled with hatred like her so you're not seeing it.

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 11:36am

  30. You don't know me,Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 11:36am | ignore this person

    we know enough.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/31/2007 @ 12:28pm

  31. Turk - You don't know me, so stop acting like you do.

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 11:36am

    I know you through your post, and that is enough to know that you are no fan of any truth that contradicts your worldview - or do I have you confused with someone else?

    I don't think so, because anybody who has read Molly Ivins with anything other than a lemming mentality could never say that she was hateful. Molly Ivins would be more in line with Harry Truman and his response to his campaign's battle cry - "Give 'em hell, Harry!"

    "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."

    Harry S Truman

    Molly Ivins' words probably do seem hateful to those who only see and hear what they want to see and hear - it doesn't make the words hateful.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 12:43pm

  32. woodeye has settled down a bit recently...has shown evidence of some critical thinking and such...

    or am i confusing old woodeye with that barry25 guy?

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 12:57pm

  33. Molly is a gifted, funny, stinging, profane, satirist that many of us read over the years. May God give her peace and courage as she battles her illness.

    While Molly grew up in Houston, she was educated in liberal enclaves and it came through in her columns. I don't know if Molly "hated" Texas or Texas poliics but she sure as hell(one of the cuss words she liked to use) offered long, hard, critique. Like many liberals, Molly has/had little positive to say about anyone who might call themselves "conservative". One thing we can/could count on is Molly "making fun" of anything slightly non-liberal.

    Art Buchwald was the classic satrist who whacked liberals and conservatives equally. He could consider the foibles of both. Molly may not "hate" anything conservative; would we buy "severely dislike"?

    In any case, many of us Texas moderate conservatives wish her well in her challenge.

    Posted by Bugs69 at 01/31/2007 @ 1:09pm

  34. Turkey - I do read her columns and she's a very hateful person just like all of those who suffer from Bush derangement syndrome(sp?). Bush isn't the cause of your problems; you are or someone that you know who has wronged you or your parents that you're mad at or whatever. Look, I've been there. During the 90's when things weren't going right for me, I was there blaming Clinton and showing signs of Clinton Derangement Syndrome like the right wingers but I realized that my problems were due to me and I corrected them and realized how stupid it was to get all worked up over Clinton. I was talking to a girl at work awhile ago who had BDS big time. We both realized that she was merely venting at Bush over her own problems. Her problems are now gone and she's no longer angry at Bush and she feels foolish over it. She even peeled off her stupid anti Bush/Rightwingers/Neocons/etc stickers from her car.

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 1:17pm

  35. Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 1:17pm

    Perhaps you could discuss this "projecting" thing with Pontificus - apparently he's an expert.

    I, however, despise Bush because of his moronic decisions, his calvalier attitudes towards things that I think are important to a safe, healthy country (health care, education, the environment, etc.), and his overwhelming desire to reduce the outlets for those who disagree with any of his policies and his obvious wish to expand beyond any legal or moral bounds the powers of the presidency.

    That is my problem. But thanks for caring!

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 1:34pm

  36. I think you might be on to something, Woody.

    For the last couple of years I've become increasingly agitated about Bush and Cheney. I've hated what they've appeared to have done to our constitution in the name of protecting us against the things they've told us to fear. I've loathed what I've perceived to be a complete lack of truthfulness and transparency, and found no solace in the media. I've been convinced that my hard-earned tax dollars have been wasted on illegitimate wars and no-bid crony contracts, while the wealthiest of citizens and corporations get the tax breaks. I have been made to feel that the great nation I grew up with has all but disappeared, replaced by a barely-educated, social Darwinist, winner-take-all ant farm. I have blamed right-wing extremists, deluded neocons, fake Christians, Zionists, lobbyists, and everyone from the state of Texas except Molly Ivins. But, as it turns out,

    I am to blame.

    (Sorry.)

    Posted by drhammer at 01/31/2007 @ 1:48pm

  37. there are two very big lies at work here. one is that the islamists hate us for our freedoms. they hate us for our policies and actions. the neocons and the religious right hate us for our freedoms, as they are assidiously trying to curtail them.

    the other big lie is that we liberals hate Bush and everything we say and do is really only about that. wrong. I hate Bush for his policies. Bush the man is far too stupid an individual to merit even my attention.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/31/2007 @ 1:53pm

  38. And you're letting all of this get to you? Did you get this way when Hillary tried to wreck the economy with her health scam? Did you feel embarassed as an American about Clinton/Lewinsky? Are you upset because of the secret nature of what went on? Do you get upset that your tax dollars are wasted on welfare? Do you get upset about illegals getting jobs/free healthcare/education/welfare/etc?

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 1:58pm

  39. Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 1:55pm | ignore this person

    he's baaack, arghh.

    that hiatus on libert's part was too good to give up now. click

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/31/2007 @ 2:01pm

  40. Posted by JOHANNESROLF 01/31/2007 @ 2:01pm

    I'm sure I speak for more than myself when I say that your Godless, America-hating liberal spew could use some of LVL's thoughtful spiritual counterbalance.

    Posted by drhammer at 01/31/2007 @ 2:10pm

  41. (I almost peed myself typing that.)

    Posted by drhammer at 01/31/2007 @ 2:10pm

  42. And you're letting all of this get to you? Did you get this way when Hillary tried to wreck the economy with her health scam? Did you feel embarassed as an American about Clinton/Lewinsky? Are you upset because of the secret nature of what went on? Do you get upset that your tax dollars are wasted on welfare? Do you get upset about illegals getting jobs/free healthcare/education/welfare/etc?

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 1:58pm

    Your fears and hatred comes shining through! You're against every American citizen getting health care? And I am less embarassed by Clinton's peccadilos than I am by Bush's major offenses. And I am just as upset that this country's legislative body was embroiled in hearings to get to the bottom of who blew who as I am at the current congress's inability to show any backbone in holding oversight hearings on Bush's attempts to subvert the Constitution. And I am very upset that my tax dollars are wasted on welfare, especially corporate welfare that just makes the CEO's richer as they send good-paying jobs elsewhere to improve their bottom lines (and it is the corporate welfare that truly sucks a much bigger share of money out of people's pockets than the Cadillac-driving welfare moms). And illegal immigration is a problem, but building a fence or trying to deport the millions here are not answers - spreading American values like fair pay, safe working conditions, etc. will do more to keep Mexicans in Mexico than anything else.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 2:48pm

  43. ...what LVLIBERTY1 said! (Bravo!)

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 2:49pm

  44. You're proving my point, Turkey. Clinton - Good, Bush - Bad. I bet you're like the nutjobs who get captivated with sports teams and whose mood depends on if they're winning or losing.

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 2:52pm

  45. You're proving my point, Turkey. Clinton - Good, Bush - Bad. I bet you're like the nutjobs who get captivated with sports teams and whose mood depends on if they're winning or losing.

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 2:52pm

    And you're proving mine - lemmings are more concerned about a blowjob that happened several years ago and had absolutely no impact on national security than they are about a current case involving a breach of security authorized by the highest levels of our government, and the subsequent cover-up by the same higher-ups.

    And there's that puerile "Turkey" remark - are you and Pontificus in the same study hall? Do you have lunch together? Maybe you should spend more time on your algebra homework than trying to support the mis-administration of this great country.

    Posted by Turk33 at 01/31/2007 @ 3:11pm

  46. And you're letting all of this get to you? Did you get this way when Hillary tried to wreck the economy with her health scam? Did you feel embarassed as an American about Clinton/Lewinsky? Are you upset because of the secret nature of what went on? Do you get upset that your tax dollars are wasted on welfare? Do you get upset about illegals getting jobs/free healthcare/education/welfare/etc? WOODYEE

    I knew it wouldn't be long before one of the resident donkeys posted something about Clinton- shit it is getting pathological. Are you really that bereft of original critiques that you have to drag up decade old BJ lies that the populace shrugged and laughed about even then? Pathetic, but not quite as pathetic as your little amateur foray into psychoanalysis where you proclaim oh so astutely that everyone heres disdain for this disasterous (mis)administration is really just an outward manifestation of internal turmoil and disatisfaction. You really are a bright one- and that anecdotal evidence from one co worker- CASE FUCKING CLOSED!

    Posted by entropy at 01/31/2007 @ 3:26pm

  47. I am not aware of any freedoms that we members of the religious right have taken away or curtailed from anyone in this country. Care to list them?

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 2:26pm

    Recently, or am I able to go BACK a few years...such as--

    1. 18th Amendment to the US Constitution, and Volstead Act.

    2. Tenn. HB 185, 1925....aka "The Butler Act"

    3. the State laws that prohibited the sale of contraceptives

    4. the State laws that outlawed abortion

    I'd go back to certain judicial events in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692, but technically we weren't the United States then, so might get some argument.

    Posted by Mask at 01/31/2007 @ 4:24pm

  48. ENTROPY - You're a perfect example. Calm down and see a shrink, you mouth breathing moron!

    Posted by woodyee at 01/31/2007 @ 4:32pm

  49. "Yes, TURK, but ...'lest we forget....it also means people like Jayson Blair, Judith Miller, Hearst & Pulitzer pushing the Spanish-American War, Dan Rather's "Memo-gate", or Fox News (to give equal time to both sides).

    Not a call for less press freedom, just an acknowledgment that it's not all pure as the driven snow either.

    Posted by MASK 01/31/2007 @ 09:30am |" Mask, there's a large difference between activism and lying. And if you'd read the gist of the Rather fluff-up, you'd realize that it didn't belong on that list. Try reading for content, for a change.

    Posted by brantl at 01/31/2007 @ 4:59pm

  50. Hey woodeye- great response to my post jackass- did it take both of your functioning braincells firing simultaneously to conjure such genius?

    Posted by entropy at 01/31/2007 @ 5:08pm

  51. She will not be missed by any but the far left. That said, I hope she makes peace with God before her day of judgment which appears to be near.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 1:55pm

    Ouch! I see that you leave the compassionate conservatism to Dubya...

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 01/31/2007 @ 5:13pm

  52. That said, I never cared for Ivins' columns - they smacked of knee-jerk ignorance and reflected poorly on us leftists. Specifically, she wrote frequent ad hominum attacks and had no understanding of economic subtleties.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 01/31/2007 @ 5:14pm

  53. Posted by MASK 01/31/2007 @ 4:24pm

    I never thought I'd write this, but NICE POST, MASK!

    You also could have listed the Kansas fanatics attack on science, namely evolutionary science. The slogan for that should be "keeping children ignorant for the sake of religious extremism"

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 01/31/2007 @ 5:19pm

  54. I knew a very smart guy, a fellow nuclear engineer in the navy, who was a mouth breather. Breathing through your mouth is not a sign of stupidity, but rather it is a sign of a restricted nasal passage.

    We still laughed at him for it...

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 01/31/2007 @ 5:21pm

  55. wait...woodYEE?

    what happened to woodEYE?

    dyslexic moment?

    DYSLEXICS UNTIE!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 6:07pm

  56. That Molly Ivens' reporting should be seen as either "activism" or "satire" is indicative of the apalling standards that obtain in her profession.

    Of course the woman has a point of view, but agree with it or not, you have to give her credit for calling it as she sees it based on good old fashioned homework.

    Posted by dogsnose at 01/31/2007 @ 6:37pm

  57. in tribute to the great Molly Ivens, I will give the gate to every single disgusting Tory that raises their ugly head on this blog. that means you Woody and Liberty. begone you swine.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 01/31/2007 @ 8:20pm

  58. Turk - You don't know me, so stop acting like you do. I guess you're filled with hatred like her so you're not seeing it.

    Posted by WOODYEE 01/31/2007 @ 11:36am | ignore this person

    It's quite possible that Turk, like most of us, learned more than enough about Woodyee when, in response to learning about the murder of 24 civilians in Haditha, including 19 children and the mothers who were trying to shield them, Woodyee posted that "Maybe they deserved it."

    That was easily the most "filled with hatred" post I've ever seen on these blogs!

    Posted by Lillian at 01/31/2007 @ 8:28pm

  59. I absolutely adored Molly Ivins. She will be mourned and missed by the vast majority of this country.

    God bless her and welcome her into His loving embrace.

    RIP Molly...and thank you for every word.

    Posted by Lillian at 01/31/2007 @ 8:33pm

  60. And DaveBarlett, you're an asshole!

    Posted by COSMIC DEBRIS

    Well, piss on ya.....

    Posted by davebarlett at 01/31/2007 @ 9:49pm

  61. Posted by MASK 01/31/2007 @ 4:24pm | ignore this person

    Well i suppose if you are going to attribute those things with the religous right...then

    You MUST attribute laws against Murder, larceny, and vice to the religous right.

    And actually prohibtion was spurred by womens groups...aka feminists. lol

    And in truth it was, then, the religous right who were fundamental in starting the abolitionists movement....not to mention civil rights.

    THANK YOU RELIGOUS RIGHT.

    Posted by CPT at 01/31/2007 @ 10:17pm

  62. WOODEYE

    You know better than trying to make the leftys look in the mirror.

    They see no flaws...its only in those who they dont agree with that are marked repugnent

    Posted by CPT at 01/31/2007 @ 10:19pm

  63. That was easily the most "filled with hatred" post I've ever seen on these blogs!

    Posted by LILLIAN 01/31/2007 @ 8:28pm | ignore this person

    God NO!!! then you have either not been reading posts here or are selectively critical.

    Posted by CPT at 01/31/2007 @ 10:21pm

  64. Leftists can't get past the idea that no crime was committed. And contrary to Crabwalk and others, Plame continued working at the CIA until last year. She left on her own accord due to the pending lawsuit, not because her position with the CIA was compromised.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 3:16pm

    Still valiantly clinging to the dumbest mutha fucka on the planet trophy eh liberty?

    libby lied under oath. That's the very same thing that my favorite president was impeached for in a flurry of self righteous indignation by hamsters like yourself.

    The only real difference between the two cases is that scooter (like every other evangelic conservative) doesn't have the strength of character to fess up like President Clinton did.

    He (scooter) (like every other evangelic conservative) is pointing the finger at everyone else.

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 10:23pm

  65. I love how you fellers take personal responsibility

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 10:23pm

  66. God NO!!! then you have either not been reading posts here or are selectively critical.

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:21pm

    perhaps the distinction "most", was lost on you

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 10:24pm

  67. WILL C.

    That was easily the most "filled with hatred" post I've ever seen on these blogs!

    Posted by LILLIAN 01/31/2007 @ 8:28pm | ignore this person

    No, i think it might have been lost on you....for if you think that is the MOST hate filled post here...then you are willfully not reading the posts here or are selectively critical or biased

    Posted by CPT at 01/31/2007 @ 10:28pm

  68. God NO!!! then you have either not been reading posts here or are selectively critical.

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:21pm | ignore this person

    Well, now that you mention it, many of your posts, and many of the posts of Leave Liberty, have quite probably been just as hate-filled as that example from Woodyee.

    Thanks for spurring that re-assessment CPT!

    Posted by Lillian at 01/31/2007 @ 10:32pm

  69. No, i think it might have been lost on you....for if you think that is the MOST hate filled post here...then you are willfully not reading the posts here or are selectively critical or biased

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:28pm

    What am i going to do with you retards? Lillian thinks this is the most hate filled post dummy

    damn you have a short attention span

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 10:36pm

  70. No, i think it might have been lost on you....for if you think that is the MOST hate filled post here...then you are willfully not reading the posts here or are selectively critical or biased

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:28pm | ignore this person

    Actually CPT, if you can find an example of a hate-filled post, on par with claiming that mothers, murdered in cold-blood while trying in vain to protect their children from the same fate, "deserved it", please let us know.

    Posted by Lillian at 01/31/2007 @ 10:41pm

  71. And just so you know CPT, you'll need to look pretty hard...because in my opinion, Woodyee set the bar pretty low with that vile post!

    Posted by Lillian at 01/31/2007 @ 10:45pm

  72. It will be intresting to examine your evidence indicating that this will occur!

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/31/2007 @ 11:03pm

    Because forgiveness is divine. And god is... you know...

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 11:07pm

  73. Wait... you don't know do you?

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 11:08pm

  74. i am sure she will get at least a decent next life. blessings to her and her family.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/31/2007 @ 11:31pm

  75. Did Libby lie? Funny, I thought that is what the trial is attempting to determine? As for Willie boy, perjury was proven, but impeachment did not occur that I recall. How was Clintons perjury conviction a result of self-righteous indignation? Is that the definition at law of perjury?

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/31/2007 @ 11:11pm

    Rio, President Clinton never had a perjury conviction. He never went to trial.

    Why?

    Because he (unlike scooter) (or any other evangelic conservative for that matter) took personal responisbiltiy for his actions. He went on national TV and before God and country admitted his guilt.

    scooter of course (like every other evangelic conservative) is blaming everyone he can besides himself.

    Ha Ha Ha Ha

    we have pool on how long it will take him to blame the alcohol or the sexual advances of his priest

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 11:34pm

  76. or both

    :)

    Posted by Will C. at 01/31/2007 @ 11:34pm

  77. It is no wonder that the left is clueless about morality. You don't even desire that people have peace with God.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 11:50pm

    Liberty, Physics can correct me If I'm wrong but I think he was keying in on your reference to her day of judgement. Not your hope chest

    God doesn't judge his children, he welcomes them home with open arms.

    and a for morality, that is for our lives, not the reconnection with God that comes between them.

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 12:00am

  78. How sad and I hope she finds peace. She'll be missed.

    Posted by woodyee at 02/01/2007 @ 12:04am

  79. Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:17pm

    I'm sorry, CPT....was it the "atheist Left" who passed "The Butler Act" in Tennessee in the '20s? Was it them "durn secular liberals" who pushed for bans on contraception?

    and I'm sure ALL those Prohibitionists were "femi-nazis", right?

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 07:08am

  80. Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/01/2007 @ 02:03

    LVLIB, might seem strange to you, but it IS possible for WILL to believe in God...

    and not believe in a book about him.

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 07:09am

  81. LVLIB, might seem strange to you, but it IS possible for WILL to believe in God...

    and not believe in a book about him.

    Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 07:09am

    So you mean if Will lives a good life, is kind to people, and tries to better after making a mistake, but doesn't believe in the Creation myth, a boat with two of every living thing, or the philosophy that homosexuals should be put to death, he won't go to Heaven?

    As a Catholic, I find it offensive that people who claim they are Christian can act so un-Christian. Maybe I'm not a good Catholic (I know Liberty and others will think I'm not even a Christian), but my faith is put in the spirit, not the letter of the law. The Bible was written by men, for people of different times in human history. I have no doubt that the writers had great faith, and they may have felt inspired by their faith in their god, but they were human, with all the biases and prejudices and motivations implicit in humanity. To claim that you believe every single word of the Bible is to claim that you can believe completely contradictory statements. Or that you believe in capital punishment for a social faux pas like working on the Sabbath, or committing perjury (watch out Scooter! - oh wait, Scooter is a true believer, so the lemmings will in all likelihood ignore or spin Scooter's "alleged" perjury).

    And what about another group of people with great faith who take literally their holy book - Muslim extremists! They are condemned (rightly so) for using words in a book to justify their actions. Sounds familiar.

    Maybe the key to peace is for the faithful to worry more about the spirit of religion (kindness, good works and deeds, brotherhood, spirituality and forgiveness) than to focus on every tidbit written that "justifies" capital punishment, condemn love with the wrong person, and terrorism in the name of martyrdom.

    And now (I would wager) someone will come along, missing entirely the "spirit" of my post, and give biblical rationalizations for all the tidbits I've mentioned.

    And to you I say, amen. I forgive you.

    And for Molly Ivins, I say she was a good soul and good person and I hope that she is at peace.

    Posted by Turk33 at 02/01/2007 @ 08:51am

  82. .not to mention civil rights.

    THANK YOU RELIGOUS RIGHT.

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:17pm | ignore this person

    this is a joke, as are you. the religious right was NOT in the forefront of the civil rights movement. they were back in the south applauding their KKK. the civil rights movement was the same people who agitated against the vietnam war, the religious left. perhaps you can show how Martin Luther King was a member of the religious right. your pathetic revisionism is ludicrous. I was there, I imagine you were still in short pants.

    why am I arguing with such brainless mendacious toads? click.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 02/01/2007 @ 09:18am

  83. It is no wonder that I am clueless about morality. I desire peace with my false God.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/31/2007 @ 11:50pm

    Posted by johannesrolf at 02/01/2007 @ 09:24am

  84. Posted by TURK33 02/01/2007 @ 08:51am

    Actually, TURK....boiled down, literalists are...idolators.

    Not specifically those fundamentalist women who wear crosses around their necks (while probably chastising Catholics who wear crucifixes)....but the whole CONCEPT of Bible literalism.

    If we imbue a PHYSICAL OBJECT (like a book) with "God-like power", such as the power to be..."inerrant" and "literal Truth"...then doesn't that object take on a IDOLIZED form?

    And consider this thought experiment for them?

    "Does God have the power to change history?" If so, then couldn't He have ALTERED the past and made "Genesis" wrong and "evil-lution" right? Why couldn't God have "divinely inspired" Darwin, as he supposedly "divinely inspired" the Hebrew chroniclers and the Apostles?

    If not...then The Bible...is stronger than God!

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 09:29am

  85. If not...then The Bible...is stronger than God!

    Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 09:29am

    Blasphemer! If I were a "real" Christian, I'd have to... put you to death?

    Did you ever notice that hardcore Christians depend more on the Old Testament to defend their hateful sides? Forget about the liberals taking the Christ out of Christmas - these yahoos take the Christ out of Christianity. They are the Pharisees (preaching the word but not living it) and Sadduccees (conservative and linked to politics) of our day, and if Jesus came back today, preaching as he did in the New Testament, it would be the Falwells, the Graham's, the Robertson's, and all the lemmings who would denounce him the loudest.

    Posted by Turk33 at 02/01/2007 @ 10:13am

  86. Posted by LILLIAN 01/31/2007 @ 10:41pm | ignore this person

    Have you never seen a guy named Chimichmenga post on hear?

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:33am

  87. "the strength of character to fess up like President Clinton did.

    He (scooter) (like every other evangelic conservative) is pointing the finger at everyone else. "

    Posted by WILL C. 01/31/2007 @ 10:23pm |

    I remember a finger pointing at us saying, "I never had sex, with that woman..."

    He never admitted anything verbally, but stopped fighting in court when told he was going to lose the entire case stone cold...THEN he had a come to meet Jesus moment...with Ol' Jesse hisself!!!

    A little revision from Will, an admitted Clinton lover...wait till he gets Hillary...you find her a little hot, do ya? Makes your propellar spin?

    Posted by john maasch at 02/01/2007 @ 10:34am

  88. Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 07:08am | ignore this person

    If in your mind the religous right was responsible for those laws, then you MUST credit them with the other laws that we all appreciate and still live under.

    Again....THANK YOU RELIGOUS RIGHT.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:36am

  89. JOHANNE

    This is the fifth time that i have been clicked by you. Why not just keep me there and spare yourself. otherwise it is rather silly to keep annoucing that i am being clicked.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:38am

  90. Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 10:36am

    Huh?!?!?? CPT are you just being contrarian or immensely dense?

    Again, who pushed and also DEFENDED (in a court in Dayton, TN in 1925 to be exact) the "Butler Act" which outlawed the teaching of evolution?

    "The liberals"!?!?!? "The atheists"?!?!?

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 10:41am

  91. Posted by TURK33 02/01/2007 @ 10:13am | ignore this person

    Nah, your way off. But whatever you need to tell yourself to reinforce your liberal beliefs.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:42am

  92. MASK

    Ok fine MASK your strawman argument works for you.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:43am

  93. MASK

    Again, THANKS RELIGOUS RIGHT for murder, larceny and vice laws. not to mention civil rights and the abolition movement

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 10:45am

  94. Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 10:45am

    HUH!??!? "Strawman"?!?!?!? Are you nuts or being totally dishonest?

    "You MUST attribute laws against Murder, larceny, and vice to the religous right.

    And actually prohibtion was spurred by womens groups...aka feminists. ---Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:17pm"

    First, how is a law against "murder, larceny" comparable to a law against teaching evolution in school?

    Second, Google "Rev. Billy Sunday", "Wayne Wheeler", or the "Anti-Saloon League". These weren't Carrie Nation and an axe...or even Susan B. Anthony.

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 10:55am

  95. If that is your belief, it should be an interesting moment when you make that claim before Jesus on His throne.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/01/2007 @ 02:03am

    Right, to the evangelic church jesus is god. Except that gods can't suffer. And gods can't die.

    Your evangelic interpretation of the christain text tranforms the most compelling component of the christain religion into a lie.

    luvvy, why do you refuse to use the mind that god gave you? He doesn't want slaves or worshipers or mindless tools that can't do anything more than parrot back what they read.

    God like the rest of us wants children who can think for themselves.

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 11:15am

  96. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 02/01/2007 @ 10:34am

    I remember a finger pointing at us saying, "I never had sex, with that woman..."

    yeah but it wasn't pointing to blame someone else, like your boy Scooter is doing

    He never admitted anything verbally, but stopped fighting in court when told he was going to lose the entire case stone cold...THEN he had a come to meet Jesus moment...with Ol' Jesse hisself!!!

    he went on TV and admitted it. You must have been drunk passed out that day.

    A little revision from Will, an admitted Clinton lover...wait till he gets Hillary...you find her a little hot, do ya? Makes your propellar spin?

    I never said I love clinton. I said he ws my favorite president. and as for hillary, she is a woman of excellent character. And no my thinking about her doesn't center on the groin like yours does.

    massch one question for you. Does this fascination that you have developed with red propellers have anything to do with the fact that I used to fly military aircraft in the defense of our nation while you have done little more than grow mantits?

    it's ok if you need to put me down to feel good about your own failings. I'm a adult. I can take it. And if you need any help working through your inner conflicts or the alcohol abuse that results from them, don't hesitate to ask.

    we'd really like to see you come back to the human race

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 11:27am

  97. Post-Election Etiquette

    By Molly Ivins, AlterNet. Posted November 9, 2006.

    The Democrats won this election because we are involved in a disastrous war. We know how to do this: Declare victory, and go home.

    Now They're All For Bipartisanship Apparently, the people of this country did not elect liberals to Congress last week. Nope, they elected populists! Nov 15, 2006

    The sheer pleasure of getting lessons in etiquette from Karl Rove and the right-wing media passeth all understanding. Ever since 1994, the Republican Party has gone after Democrats with the frenzy of a foaming mad dog. There was the impeachment of Bill Clinton, not to mention the trashing of both Clinton and his wife -- accused of everything from selling drugs to murder -- all orchestrated by that paragon of manners, Tom DeLay.

    Media Matters collected some gems of fairness. For instance, Monica Crowley with MSNBC, in the wake of John Kerry's botched program, astutely observed "how lucky we are that he was not elected president. ... The Republicans remain the grown-ups, the responsible ones on national security."

    How many dead Americans has this grown-up war resulted in?

    And how darling of Fox's Juan Williams, upon learning polls show the people favor Democrats on taxes, to say, "To me, that's crazy."

    And how many times did Chris Matthews use the Republican talking points about Nancy Pelosi? Extremist, uncooperative, incapable, unwilling to work with the president.

    So after 12 years of tolerating lying, cheating and corruption, the press is prepared to lecture Democrats on how to behave with bipartisan manners.

    Given Bush's record with the truth, this bipartisanship sounds like a bad idea on its face. Go back to the first year of the administration, when Bush double-crossed Ted Kennedy in the No Child Left Behind Act. Think about it: You've said at the outset of your administration that you need cooperation to get anything done. Then you double-cross one of the senior senators of the other party when your re-education and labor agenda is dependent on him?

    These people are not only dishonest -- they're not even smart. Not that I recommend nailing them at every turn, but I wouldn't be surprised if they try to do it to Democrats. If what Republicans have been practicing is bipartisanship, West Texas just flooded.

    O.K., here's what the D's have going for them. New kids. Easy, popular first moves -- for example, increasing the minimum wage. Republicans so inept that it's painful. You want to look at some really, really basic legislation, try fixing the Medicare prescription drug bill. Or the bankruptcy bill. Or new dollar and trade policies.

    Then we get to the real meat of this election. There are all manner of shuffle steps and politically shrewd thing for the D's to do. But now is not the time to be clever. The Democrats won this election because we are involved in a disastrous war. We know how to do this: Declare victory, and go home.

    I noticed when Republicans are forced to talk about how to end this, they tend to announce that it's all hopeless: They have no ideas at all. Thanks, guys. Of all the options, I would say splitting Iraq into three states is least advisable. First, it puts us in the position of screwing the Kurds once again. Second, Turkey has serious objections to a Kurdistan. Third, Turkey is not a militia. Fourth, it gives Iran and Saudi Arabia a pawn apiece. And there'd be an unimaginable amount of future hassle.

    Do I have any good ideas? Yes, but it's not a solution. We need to start the Middle East peace process again. Because it's the right thing to do. Because it's what Bush should have done to begin with. Because we have to start somewhere.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    thanks so much molly. have a beautiful journey!

    alternet has lots of her articles handy if anyone wants to check them out.

    Posted by loveloki at 02/01/2007 @ 11:37am

  98. Nah, your way off. But whatever you need to tell yourself to reinforce your liberal beliefs.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 10:42am

    Whoa, slow down with your specifics! Don't hammer me with logic, please, you know how we hate that. Why don't you stick with general denials and lemming-like rhetoric? That's the best way to win an argument.

    This break from reality brought to you by "Up-Is-Down Lemming Logic Systems"™ - where we never met a fact we couldn't spin or avoid! Since 2001

    Posted by Turk33 at 02/01/2007 @ 11:52am

  99. Have you never seen a guy named Chimichmenga post on hear?

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 10:33am | ignore this person

    Yes, I have. Nothing Chimi has ever posted even comes close.

    Posted by Lillian at 02/01/2007 @ 12:09pm

  100. not to mention civil rights.

    THANK YOU RELIGOUS RIGHT.

    Posted by CPT 01/31/2007 @ 10:17pm | ignore this person

    this is a joke, as are you. the religious right was NOT in the forefront of the civil rights movement. they were back in the south applauding their KKK. the civil rights movement was the same people who agitated against the vietnam war, the religious left. perhaps you can show how Martin Luther King was a member of the religious right. your pathetic revisionism is ludicrous. I was there, I imagine you were still in short pants.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 02/01/2007 @ 09:18am | ignore this person

    Johannes, I was there also. You've hit the nail squarely on the head with that post. Unfrotunately, I doubt that it will ever penetrate the tightly sealed minds of people like CPT.

    Posted by Lillian at 02/01/2007 @ 12:21pm

  101. Huh?!?!?? CPT are you just being contrarian or immensely dense?

    Again, who pushed and also DEFENDED (in a court in Dayton, TN in 1925 to be exact) the "Butler Act" which outlawed the teaching of evolution?

    "The liberals"!?!?!? "The atheists"?!?!?

    Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 10:41am | ignore this person

    Frustrating isn't it.

    BTW, brace yourself...

    ...I liked this post...

    Posted by MASK 01/31/2007 @ 4:24pm | ignore this person

    Posted by Lillian at 02/01/2007 @ 12:23pm

  102. ...I liked this post...

    Posted by MASK 01/31/2007 @ 4:24pm | ignore this person

    Posted by LILLIAN 02/01/2007 @ 12:23am

    See? I'm not TOTALLY "evil". But that doesn't mean I'm letting you off the hook (especially since THIS thread mentioned you reading CHIMICHENGA) for an answer to THIS (Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 10:30am) on Liza Featherstone's "Wal-mart Organics" thread.

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 12:45pm

  103. Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 02/01/2007 @ 08:58am

    While I have disagreed with much of what I have read from you, MBB, your post was very thoughtful, and expressed my feelings about Molly Ivins almost exactly.

    She was a treasure, and the only hate generated by her passionate and humorous writings was experienced by those who hated it when she so handily skewered their icons.

    Peace

    Posted by drhammer at 02/01/2007 @ 1:13pm

  104. Again Will, you are certainly free to believe what you want, however it will be most interesting for you to make that point if Jesus is who He said He is:

    32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven." Matthew 10:32,33

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/01/2007 @ 12:49am

    Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Luvvy, you obviously didn't take me up on the challange to think for yourself. Your matthew quote paints jesus as the middle man, not the principle and it is consistant with my position that he isn't god.

    sorry I didn't read the rest of your post, but I usually stop reading them at the point where my bullshit alarm goes off.

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 1:31pm

  105. Your statement is proof positive of the faultiness of human logic and wisdom.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/01/2007 @ 1:

    Again, not my fight, but a question....

    Apart from YOUR choice LL, why is WILL's "human wisdom" less wise, than the "human wisdom" of St. Paul?

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 2:14pm

  106. Your statement is proof positive of the faultiness of human logic and wisdom. You cannot even process beyond your simplistic and narrow minded thoughts to see the obvious.

    Do they allow you to operate moving equipment?

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/01/2007 @ 1:48pm

    It's really a simple passage from matthew luvvy. It's in plain english. It's easy to understand. and it makes a distinction between god and jesus.

    you were really stupid to pick that one to try to support the evangelic churches position that jesus is god.

    If only you took me up on the offer

    Tisk tisk tisk

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 2:24pm

  107. Posted by LILLIAN 02/01/2007 @ 12:21am | ignore this person

    Since you guys are allowed to play loose with the attributing of people to certain causes...then there were SEVERAL hundred religous people who were there in the begining of the civil rights struggle.

    Now the criteria, according to your kind, is the presence of ONE, represents the whole, like MASK and JOHANNE love to toss out.

    I was just playing the game according to the rules that YOU set up.

    You dont like it? Then display some intellectual honesty

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 2:25pm

  108. oh and did I mention that I can pull a whole lot more out of the christain text that do the same thing

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 2:25pm

  109. You dont like it? Then display some intellectual honesty

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 2:25pm

    They did. the religious right was an the wrong side of the civil rights movement.

    the religious left stood with king

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 2:27pm

  110. Yes, I have. Nothing Chimi has ever posted even comes close.

    Posted by LILLIAN 02/01/2007 @ 12:09am | ignore this person

    What?!?!?!?!?!? Then your biased and not honestly answering. Which is fine, but there is no comparasion....Chimi/FRB are the most invective hurling posters here.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 2:27pm

  111. Posted by WILL C. 02/01/2007 @ 2:27pm | ignore this person

    Now the criteria, according to what they establsihed is the presence of ONE, represents the whole.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 2:29pm

  112. You dont like it? Then display some intellectual honesty

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 2:25pm

    I'd like to see some from YOU, CPT. Unless you're still "playing the liberals' game".

    WAS it "atheists" and "liberals" who pushed and defended the "Butler Act" in Tennessee forbidding the teaching of evolution?

    Or, going ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the way back now, was my list to LVLIB atleast SOMEwhat accurate about "rights that the Religious Right have taken away"?

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 2:47pm

  113. Now the criteria, according to what they establsihed is the presence of ONE, represents the whole.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 2:29pm

    well, you fellers do walk in lock step.

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 3:13pm

  114. LL, maybe you think your hellfire and brimstone theology is all good will and compassion. It is not. I've said it before, fundamentalist monotheism is the greatest evil in the history of the world.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 02/01/2007 @ 5:46pm

  115. I've said it before, fundamentalist monotheism is the greatest evil in the history of the world.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS 02/01/2007 @ 5:46pm | ignore this person

    Then you are either a fool, a big fool. Dangerously stupid.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 6:32pm

  116. Posted by MASK 02/01/2007 @ 2:47pm | ignore this person

    What is your problem, i TOLD you already....you have your strawman argument....if it works for you fine. But it is by definition dishonest

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 6:34pm

  117. Then you are either a fool, a big fool. Dangerously stupid.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 6:32pm

    You haven't been keeping up with current events have you CPT?

    Fundamentalist monotheists have set up the the nightmare senario: perpetual war in the nuclear age with another group of fundamentalist monotheists.

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 6:36pm

  118. and you might want to check your sentence structure

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 6:36pm

  119. ooops scratch either

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 6:37pm

  120. everybody makes mistakes

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 6:37pm

  121. Posted by WILL C. 02/01/2007 @ 6:36pm | ignore this person

    You want to add up all body counts to see who is quantifiable the greatest evil?????

    WW2 not about monethesiem.....50 million

    Lefty Stalin another 20 million of his own people(at least)

    Lefty Mao another 15 million at least.

    Lefty Kim Jong Il another million

    Lefty Ho chi minh' gang post 1975 1 million (south vietnamese)

    Lefty Khemer Rouge another 2 million

    Damn thats close to a 100 million people in the last 60 years....

    38 million of which died due to communists, the extreme leftys trying to bring about classless societies. there are plenty of smaller actions in between.

    In last 100 yrs please count up the bodies that died as a direct result of religous extremism? see if it compares as the "greatest evil in the history of the world"

    sorry no contest...and dont bring the crusades or the inquisiton, because i will just counter with the French Revolution, the looney leftys killed as many in a span 10 years as the crusades and inquisition combined.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 6:47pm

  122. Will C

    Bottomline, both sides fringe elements have a bad history, but to say that religous monsthesiem is the greatest evil in the history of the world is just not correct.

    Posted by CPT at 02/01/2007 @ 6:49pm

  123. Bottomline, both sides fringe elements have a bad history, but to say that religous monsthesiem is the greatest evil in the history of the world is just not correct.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 6:49pm

    cpt

    Physics didn't say religious monotheism. He said fundamentalist religious monotheism.

    that twice in two days now. Are you purposefully being deceptive or are you just not paying attention?

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 6:52pm

  124. sorry no contest...and dont bring the crusades or the inquisiton, because i will just counter with the French Revolution, the looney leftys killed as many in a span 10 years as the crusades and inquisition combined.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 6:47pm

    Cpt, the examples you gave are all examples of religious extreamism. In some cases an existential god and a church was replaced by a mortal one and his all powerful political party, but they all required worship and blind obedience of the population. Those two factors are the the essence of fundamentalism.

    As I said before, fundamentalist monothesim has set up the nightmare senario: perpetual war in the nuclear age.

    You are familar with the rapture tale CPT? Because the only way I know to get lots and lots of people to disappear at approximatly the same time in this universe is by them standing inside the fire balls of a world wide nuclear exchange. Both sides in this thing seem to feel that the rapture senario is not only inevitable but also desirable. And it isn't, on either count.

    I myself am not afraid of dying. But there is only one end to this thing if we let it continue the way it's going.

    and it includes all of us... forever

    Posted by Will C. at 02/01/2007 @ 7:09pm

  125. i TOLD you already

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 6:34pm

    which post was that???

    Posted by Mask at 02/01/2007 @ 7:10pm

  126. Yes, I have. Nothing Chimi has ever posted even comes close.

    Posted by LILLIAN 02/01/2007 @ 12:09am | ignore this person

    What?!?!?!?!?!? Then your biased and not honestly answering. Which is fine, but there is no comparasion....Chimi/FRB are the most invective hurling posters here.

    Posted by CPT 02/01/2007 @ 2:27pm | ignore this person

    Wow CPT...your post is as biased and dishonest as they come!!

    I asked you to find an example and show us.

    You apparently don't like Chimi or FRB and responded by suggesting that they've posted something that compares to Woodyee's vile post regarding the brutality at Haditha...demonstrating your clear bias.

    And, you haven't shown us a single example from Chimi, FRB, or any other poster. You simply made the claim with no proof offered whatsoever...which clearly demonstrates your dishonesty.

    Posted by Lillian at 02/01/2007 @ 7:42pm

  127. Anyone that thinks that Molly was filled with hate has never read her writing. She was the most humorous and thoughtful columnist I loved to read. Those of you who skewer and roast her in her death only expose your inhumane and intolerant attitudes. Molly would recognize you as a species of shrub. You are nothing and Molly exposed your illerate clueless leader and if you can't see it you let your hate and ignorance condemn you to the depths of hell. Molly won't be there to greet you.

    Posted by tomkovis at 02/02/2007 @ 03:56am

  128. Oh big mistake I thought this was about Molly. I forgot that none of you assholes can respect a Molly for her convictions. The gest of your posts: Molly died . It is Bill Clinton's fault. Jesus Christ would cry for Molly Ivins, you people use her for a prop. Where the hell has civil discourse gone?

    Posted by tomkovis at 02/02/2007 @ 04:13am

  129. Was this a dishonest claim made with no proof offered whatsoever as to its validity, or just wishful thinking?

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/01/2007 @ 11:55pm

    Why can't the same desire of proof be asked of you, LVLIB, or any other fundamentalist Christian?!?!?!?

    Have any?

    Posted by Mask at 02/02/2007 @ 09:21am

  130. Posted by TOMKOVIS 02/02/2007 @ 03:56am

    Okay, TOM...I'll get back on topic.

    Molly Ivins may have been a decent person, loving to her family and friends, and even had some talent at writing.

    But her immediate "secular canonization" isn't warrented. Writing political articles, even articles you wholeheartedly agree with, and mocking (with a rather ungentile manner, I might add...after all, who introduced the term "Shrub" into the lexicon) does not place one in the hagiography.

    She used tart language and sardonic humor to ATTACK those she opposed politically. She was also quite extreme in her politics (once calling on ALL guns to be banned).

    No more than if William F. Buckley, David Brooks, Cal Thomas, or even ...Limbaugh died, does Ms Ivins deserve to be elevated to some sort of sainthood.

    Celebrate her life, reminesce about her writings or wit, but don't act like she was Martin Luther King Jr. or Henry Thoreau or some brave, morally superior fighter against oppression and corruption.

    She was a political columnist...period.

    Who had SOME flaws, notably thi s [taemag.com]

    Posted by Mask at 02/02/2007 @ 09:33am

  131. Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/02/2007 @ 3:34pm

    RIO's right....Christian dogma says that Jesus doesn't love you or even give a rat's ass about you after you're dead, if you didn't "git right" with Him beforehand.

    Of course, they also talk about "God's eternal love"?!?!?!

    Something must be screwy there???

    Posted by Mask at 02/02/2007 @ 4:35pm

  132. actually, unlike many of our soulless Tories, Bush showed some class in his remarks on the death of Molly Ivens. shame on you.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 02/02/2007 @ 7:25pm

  133. Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/02/2007 @ 5:55pm

    Pick an Apostle, any Apostle, friend...

    Matthew 25:41, 46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

    Mark 9:43-48 ... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    Luke 16:22-24 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    John 5:28-29 The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. --------------------------------------------------

    Doesn't really sound like Jesus is too keen on folks after death....or does he still love those he is torturning for all eternity????

    Posted by Mask at 02/02/2007 @ 8:19pm

  134. I didn't know this was a Bible study class. I don't have much in common with bible qouters, but religions worldwide do have one common thread: God. I guess that maakes you all closer in philisophical terms to radical muslims than me. This must explain your rabity to rational thought. The shrub exhibits the same irrationality and thus explains your useless, clueless diatribes. I only wish I could skewer you all as well as Molly skewered the shrub.

    Posted by tomkovis at 02/02/2007 @ 9:41pm

  135. actually, unlike many of our soulless Tories, Bush showed some class in his remarks on the death of Molly Ivens. shame on you.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF

    No Way! JR said something positive about Dubya........Guess I better get ready for snow here in Miami...........

    Posted by davebarlett at 02/02/2007 @ 11:40pm

  136. Posted by JOHANNESROLF 02/02/2007 @ 7:25pm

    I'm not in for "unilateral disarmament", JR.

    The folks here at "TN" began this canonization and use of Ms Ivins' death to state political statements, not me. So it's "fair game" to point out the whole story and I said NOTHING untrue about Ms Ivins.

    Posted by Mask at 02/03/2007 @ 07:48am

  137. Dave, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 02/03/2007 @ 11:09am

  138. mask,

    can you demonstrate with an example or more where the nation is attempting to canonize molly ivins?

    and please tell me you didn't read the whole article by florence king and then accept it as sound. please.

    have you read many of molly's articles?

    Posted by loveloki at 02/03/2007 @ 1:28pm

  139. ya know what mask? nevermind. i don't want to argue with you. she may or may not have plagiarized that one sentence. the second one is not plagiarized. you can see that by reading florence's article.

    florence can't hold a candle to ivins.

    i don't agree with molly on the gun thing. i can't find another example of disagreement.

    it is time to celebrate her life right now. so here is a massive cut n past of beautiful excerpts:

    Molly Ivins, In Her Own Words

    Here are some excerpts from Molly's columns for The Progressive over the last dozen years.

    Jan. 1995: Self-description

    "I don't have an agenda, I don't have a program. I'm not a communist or a socialist. I guess I'm a left-libertarian and a populist, and I believe in the Bill of Rights the way some folks believe in the Bible."

    March 1995: How to survive Newt Gingrich.

    "Ah, my friends, rejoice. These are frabjous days. Our nation survived eight years of Ronald Reagan as President. We can survive this, too. We can even laugh. All it takes is a strong stomach."

    October 1995: Deregulation

    "When last we left that merry band of Republican brothers in Congress, they were deregulating shit on beef."

    March 1998: On Clinton's sex scandal

    "I do not believe the President's sex life is any of our business. After thirty years of political reporting, I have been unable to establish a link between marital fidelity and high performance in public office. It really doesn't matter who they screw in private, as long as they don't screw the public."

    May 1998: On Clinton's sex scandal

    "With all due respect to the President's private parts, we do have bigger problems in this country."

    June 1998: Failure of Democracy

    "One reason I really like living in a democracy is that the citizens get what they want. I know you've all noticed the widespread grassroots movement surging with people rallying behind banners that say, ‘We want banks and stockbrokers to merge,' ‘We love this system of campaign financing,' ‘We want dirtier air and dirtier water,' ‘We demand tax breaks for the rich,' ‘We want fewer services for the rest of us,' ‘Don't fix our schools,' ‘More downsizing,' and ‘Tax breaks for corporations moving to Mexico.'

    Feb 2000: Cancer

    "On a personal note: I have contracted an outstanding case of breast cancer, from which I intend to recover. I don't need get-well cards, but I would like the beloved women readers to do something for me: Go. Get. The. Damn. Mammogram. Done."

    October 2000: Cancer

    "I just finished with nine months of treatment for cancer. First they poison you, then they mutilate you, then they burn you. I've had more fun. And when it's over, you're so glad that you're grateful to absolutely everyone. And I am. The trouble is, I'm not a better person. I was in great hopes that confronting my own mortality would make me deeper, more thoughtful. Many lovely people sent books on how to find a more spiritual meaning in life. My response was, ‘Oh, hell, I can't go on a spiritual journey--I'm constipated."

    Jan. 2001: Stolen election

    "These Gore people have no idea how to steal an election. What happened to the Democrats? They used to have some skill at this."

    April 2001: Inequality

    "Sunday-morning chatter announced in horror: ‘People may think the rich can buy their way out of the justice system.' No shit. Been going to Texas prisons for a long time. Seen nobody rich on Death Row yet. . . . Wake me when impending egalitarianism is a problem. In the meantime, oligarchy is eating our ass, our dreams, our country, our heritage, our democracy, our justice, and our tax code."

    June 2001: A Rule for Bush

    "I've been trying to find the depths in Bush's shallow. . . . Maybe we should add a rule that we can't invade any country the President can't pronounce."

    Nov. 2001: 9/11

    "My worry is that Bush is painting himself into a corner with his rhetoric. This is not a war; it's a gigantic police operation in the face of a crime beyond all understanding. . . .

    Back home in Texas, and the sign outside our neighborhood strip joint says, "Hot Babes, Cold Beer, Nuke 'Em, GW.' "

    Dec. 2001: Bush No Giant Among Men

    "Despite frequent reports from patriotic news media, I am unpersuaded that since September 11, George W. Bush has become a giant among men. . . . A year ago, he couldn't tell the Grecians from the Timorians, and now he's stuck with the mother of all foreign policy crises. . . . I'm praying for him. Mostly what I pray is, ‘Dear Lord, please don't let Dubya screw this one up.' "

    Dec. 2001: Foolish Military Strategy

    "It's hard to convince people you are bombing that you're doing it for their own good."

    March 2002: Enron

    "Enron is the gift that keeps on giving. Yes, there is joy in Mudville. Wallow away."

    Sept. 2002: Bush's Cronyism

    "Bush is the mascot of crony capitalism."

    Dec. 2002: Fight Harder

    "There are three things one must not do in the face of electoral disaster. Whine. Despair. Or fall for that specious old radical crap: ‘Things have to get worse before they can get better.' The only possible response to that one is, ‘Not with my child's life.' Nor is it helpful to sit around hoping that given enough rope, the R's will hang themselves. They'll hang us along with them. The only thing to do is to fight harder and smarter."

    Jan. 2003: Corporations Cash In

    "You have to admit: The corporations are getting prompt service from Republicans in return for their donations."

    April 2003: The Peace Movement

    "Well, beloveds, it looks like war. I want to talk to all of you who tried to stop this. You did not fight in vain."

    May 2003: The Myth of the Coalition

    "So constant is the reiteration of the words ‘coalition,' ‘coalition forces,' and ‘coalition position' that you might assume one actually exists. . . . Eritrea and Ethiopia do not a coalition make."

    June 2003: Iraq

    "We knew going in this was going to be the peace from hell, and so far the Administration has made every misstep possible."

    October 2003: Iraq

    "I have a suggestion for a withdrawal deadline: Let's leave Iraq before we've killed more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein did."

    November 2003: "Call Me a Bush-Hater"

    Robert Novak and Charles Krauthammer both claim to have "never seen anything like the detestation of Bush. . . . Oh, I stretch memory way back, so far back, all the way back to--our last President. Almost lost in the mists of time though it is, I not only remember eight years of relentless attacks from Clinton-haters, I also notice they haven't let up yet. . . . ‘The puzzle is where this depth of feeling comes from,' mused the ineffable Krauthammer. Gosh, what a puzzle that is. How could anyone not be just crazy about George W. Bush?"

    January 2004: On the Internet and Politics

    "I realize this is not breaking news, but we are looking at something exceptional in political history with this race. . . . The Internet is breaking open old power structures and set ways of doing things. Most campaign consultants have no idea what do with it or about it. How delightful."

    March 2004: Bush "Not Bright Enough"

    "Being curious, taking an interest in other cultures, and enjoying travel were all characteristics of Bill Clinton. . . . Bush pretty much embodies the reverse. . . . He's not bright enough to be President. . . . He neither reads, nor writes, nor speaks well. It turns out that a C average is not good enough for the Presidency."

    June 2004: Iraq

    "No one can spin away a mess as big as Iraq. Recognizing reality may not solve a problem. but it has to be the start of any solution."

    September 2004: Bush and God

    "Then there's Bush's slightly alarming claim to the Amish on July 9 that God speaks through him. That's what he said, God speaks through him. This raises some troubling prospects. First of all, I think God has a better grasp of subject-verb agreement than George W. Bush do. Also, when Bush changes his mind, as he frequently does, do we conclude that God had to rethink things after the polls came out?"

    December 2004: After Bush's reelection

    "I can think of nothing more likely to convince the people not to vote for Republicans again for a long, long time than four more years of George W. Bush. . . . Of course we'll laugh again, progressives. But I am into action now. So let's have at 'em."

    March 2005: To the Barricades

    "Friends, soulwise, these are trying times. Now is the time for all good citizens to come to the aid of our country, and it won't help if you all cower in places like Madison and the Upper West Side, having hot fantods over the approach of fascism. To the barricades, team. And for Lord's sake, don't leave your sense of humor behind."

    June 2005: Tom DeLay

    "The guy smells like a slop jar."

    August 2005: The Downing Street Memos and the Media

    "When I read the first Downing Street Memo, my eyes bugged out and my jaw fell open. It was news to me. [… But] The New York Times and The Washington Post have both gone way out of their way to deny that the Downing Street Memos (it's now plural) are news. . . . I don't know if these memos represent an impeachable offense, but they strike me as a hell of a lot worse than anything Richard Nixon ever contemplated. He used the government for petty political vindictiveness. Shit, I'd settle for that again over what we're looking at now."

    October 2005: Katrina

    "This is a column for everyone who ever said, ‘I'm sorry, I'm just not interested in politics,' or, ‘There's nothing I can do about it,' or, ‘Hey, they're all crooks anyway.' . . . I've got one word for all of you: Katrina. . . . This, friends, is why we need to pay attention to government policies, not political personalities, and to know whereon we vote. It is about our lives."

    January 2006: Bush Is Done

    "You can stick a fork in Bush, he's done. It's all over except for the next three years, and if that doesn't scare the bejeezus out of you, you haven't got a lick of sense."

    February 2006: Impeachment?

    "Uh-oh. Excuse me. I'm so sorry, but we are having an honest-to-goodness constitutional crisis as the Testy Kid violates his oath to uphold the laws and Constitution of our country. The Testy Kid wants to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it because he is the President and he considers that sufficient justification. . . . Either the President of the United States is going to have to understand and admit he has done something very wrong, or he will have to be impeached."

    March 2006: "Enough of the DC Dems"

    "I don't know about you, but I have had it with the DC Democrats, had it with the DLC Democrats, had it with every calculating, equivocating, triangulating, straddling, hair-splitting son of a bitch up there, and that includes Hillary Rodham Clinton."

    June 2006: Immigration

    "The Fence will not work. No fence will work. The Great darn Wall of China will not work. Undocumented immigrants will come anyway. Over, under, or through. Anyone who says a fence can fix this problem is a demagogue and an ass."

    July 2006: Campaign finance

    "Either we figure out how to keep corporate cash out of the political system, or we lose the democracy."

    August 2006: Republican corruption

    "The Republican Party seems to have lost its moral compass ever since Tom DeLay quit."

    December 2006: Iraq and the press

    "The self-important chattering class of Washington insists that you only have credibility as a critic of the war if you were for it in the first place. I'm missing a logical link there."

    January 2007: Populists and liberals

    "Listen, a populist is someone who is for the people and against the powerful, and so a populist is generally the same as a liberal--except we tend to have more fun."

    Final column: Iraq

    "Every single day, every single one of us needs to step outside and take some action to help stop this war. Raise hell. Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous. Make our troops know we're for them, and that's why we're trying to get them out of there. Hit the streets. Bang pots and pans. Demand, ‘Stop it, now!' "

    © 2007 The Progressive

    Posted by loveloki at 02/03/2007 @ 1:54pm

  140. Loki, thank you. I was looking for Molly Ivens' column every day, in vain. I knew that wasn't good news.I am however glad that she got to see the present reversal of fortune for shrub and his posse.

    as far as Bush goes, cue chubby Checker singing "how low can you go?" his polls are tanking still. he could be less popular than OJ. Bush has never killed anyone, as far as we know, but his reckless adventurous "war" "against" "Iraq" has gotten more than two people killed. try 200, 000, actually a lowball estimate. and this thing is not over with. many many more will die. and be maimed. has anyone looked into the faces of Iraqis standing next to the corpses of their families. have you seen the look in the eyes of the children, who cling to them?

    I don't know what to do in Iraq. perhaps I know what not to do. do not attempt to solve the situation by force of arms. aim for a cease fire,pun intended, then for an armistice. announce large scale troop withdrawals. stop supporting any Iraqi side with weapons etc. commence negotiations, allies who shrank from supporting the war, will be more pliable supporting negotiations and demilitarization, stop trying to steal their oil, why didn't anyone think of that?

    MOST OF ALL: do not keep doing what you are. meanwhile we americans wait for regime change. it will likely be a long two years.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 02/03/2007 @ 5:23pm

  141. LOVELOKI

    I also read this Salon.com story, where Molly Ivins APOLOGIZED for failing to note the "oversight" of quoting King and not attributing it.

    thi s [archive.salon.com]

    as the author noted, not a "major crime".

    And I've got nothing against Ms Ivins personally (note my FIRST response on this thread), I just don't think coming up with "Shrub" for George Bush or other snarkiness ranks her with the great political philosophers.

    Posted by Mask at 02/04/2007 @ 07:42am

  142. Loki....good stuff my friend!

    and to: Posted by DAVEBARLETT 01/30/2007 @ 8:45pm

    Uh....try reading the Constitution bucko. It clearly states that funding for a war is a two-year proposition. Per the law of the land we are overdue for a "re-authorization of force." Any guesses how this one might go?

    Posted by leftofcenter at 02/05/2007 @ 10:05am

  143. you're very welcome johannesrolf. and thanks leftofcenter. i loved her writing and will miss it.

    thanks for the additional link, mask.

    Posted by loveloki at 02/05/2007 @ 10:33pm

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